Announcer:
Hello, everyone. Welcome to The Millionaire Dentist podcast, brought to you by Four Quadrants Advisory. On this podcast, we break down the world of dentistry finances and business practices to help you become the millionaire dentist you deserve to be. Please be advised, we do speak with an honest tongue and may not be safe for work.
Casey Hiers:
Hello and welcome. This is Casey Hiers back at The Millionaire Dentist podcast in studio with co-host Jarrod Bridgeman.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Casey, how's it going?
Casey Hiers:
I'm going to call you John Wayne, man, you got this cool little country... The great West shirt with a horse and a hero on it. I don't know what's going on.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Dude, I love this shirt. It's one of those shirts where I see it on my clothes hanger and I'm never quite sure if I should wear it. And then when I do, I get compliments.
Casey Hiers:
Your staff brings you your shirt for the day and you're like, "Yes, I like that one."
Jarrod Bridgeman:
My Butler comes to me. Right.
Casey Hiers:
Yeah. No, for those of you that wouldn't know, because it's a podcast, not televised, Jarrod has a very strong and eclectic wardrobe. And I enjoy it.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Thank you.
Casey Hiers:
You're welcome.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I like to buy things that still have personality that I can wear that are work appropriate. And I can get away with it being the marketing.
Casey Hiers:
You're like that extra shot at tequila in a Margarita, Jarrod.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
That's right. The next one I love. That's right. Casey, I wanted to have a chat with you. You just got back into town from a couple events we were hosting out in Colorado, in Boulder. First of all, I wanted to ask how that went for you. Did you have a good time out there?
Casey Hiers:
Yeah.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah?
Casey Hiers:
Yeah. I lived out in Denver for a summer internship a long time ago. Love Denver. Oddly enough, the weather was the worst it's ever been when we were there.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Of course. That's-
Casey Hiers:
Before and after it was like 75 and sunny. They boast 300 sunny days a year there. I did not see the mountains. So when you land in Denver, normally you see the mountains, it's awesome. And then they had to de-ice our plane on the way home.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Dang.
Casey Hiers:
But it was nice. I always thought Boulder was this... Because it's keep Boulder weird, that's their thing. And so I went in there thinking it's beautiful, but this is, what are we going to do?
Jarrod Bridgeman:
What am I walking into?
Casey Hiers:
Some of the nicest people that have attended events. And the venue was spectacular for brunch.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
It was Black Belly you went to?
Casey Hiers:
Black Belly, yeah, it was a nice brunch spot. Well, we do a lot of golf and bourbon tastings to get into this really hard hitting subject matter, that's kind of a fun thing. Well, some people don't golf, others don't want bourbon, and so we're doing this brunch. And we got a whole new group of folks who they're there for the subject matter and they were so nice. Yeah, it was a nice [inaudible 00:02:36]-
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I'm glad to hear that. I was really excited for you guys to go out there. Colorado is a state that we have not been to in a little while, and it was nice to get back out there and have people starting to hear about us again. [inaudible 00:02:48]-
Casey Hiers:
I saw a sign I had never seen before. It was very large on the highway and it said, "Drive high, get a DUI."
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Oh, okay.
Casey Hiers:
Cannabis is legal in Colorado, but that was a sign I had not seen. The font, you couldn't miss it. And it rhymed and it had the whole thing, but I chuckled. Neither here nor there.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Neither there. Going off of that, I want to talk to you and dive into more of our speaking engagements, our speaking events in general. And not just the ones that we host. You go out to other people, other organization's events. Let me ask you, where do we speak? What are some of the organizations, what are some of the size levels that we speak to?
Casey Hiers:
And for you listeners, we won't make it all about us. But again, our subject matter is underserved, and it's needed in the dental community. We love our own events because we have them at the best venues in town. We call the shots, we can do what we want. I've yet to kick anybody out yet. Most dentists and specialists are pretty nice.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Most.
Casey Hiers:
Asterisk. No, we'll do a national meeting. Yankee Dental Congress, they have us in the speak. I've been in a ballroom with 250 orthodontists at a huge regional meeting. We'll do state meetings. I think we've done Indiana. Or Oregon.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Oregon.
Casey Hiers:
Florida, Georgia, just to name a few.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
The Florida, Georgia one.
Casey Hiers:
Great band. And I want to go to that football game in Jacksonville.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
That's right. Yeah.
Casey Hiers:
That's a bucket list. And then we'll throw in the dental societies and study clubs as well. And Jarrod, if you think about it, those are a lot of different style of events that we do. And I want people to hear this. We're not selling timeshares, this isn't a pitch. Now, in any room we're in, we can't help everybody. We hope that the information inspires them to go be better and gives them some tools. But sure, when we go talk to 1,200 people a year, well, yeah, we'd love to have some private conversations. And if we can help a handful of people, that is part of the equation. But this is not some ploy to... We're not pushing encyclopedias. We don't even sell those anymore, I kind of wish I had a set, but-
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I remember having some as a kid.
Casey Hiers:
Vacuums, whatever you think. It's not some ploy to get people in a room, it's to get them in a room to be honest with themselves and to learn something. But sure, we would like to speak to some people and maybe help a handful, but our business model isn't going out there to just be a self-promoting advertisement. That's tacky.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
So straying away from that self-advertisement, what is the point of your presentation then? If it's not to 100% sell our services. What do you speak about?
Casey Hiers:
We speak about what is not taught in dental school. We present on things that it's very hard to get supplemental knowledge from. That's probably the broadest way to say what it is. It's the business side of dentistry. It's the practice, it's the personal, it's financial. Most practice owners practice because they love dentistry or they like to work with their hands or to help people, but they're working to make money, to save money to retire, to have a great-
Jarrod Bridgeman:
A great life. Great golden age.
Casey Hiers:
Back nine, right?
Jarrod Bridgeman:
And for those of you who may not have listened to all of our episodes, well, first of all, shame on you. But second of all, and everything we're talking about, we're above the practice management level of the business side of things.
Casey Hiers:
Practice management's great. What do people always tell me? KCF stroked a huge check and we've pounded the kumbaya drum and we answer phones better and we schedule better, and the staff's happy or we do a team meeting. Those are all important, but they don't move the needle for who the practice owner who's stroking the check. Very few groups can actually help you make significantly more, save significantly more, have millions more at retirement, and retire earlier. Now, the subject matter we talk on, if people can get better in that with whoever they're currently using, that's still going to benefit them.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Correct. Why don't we go over just a couple of those areas that you... I've listened to you speak several times and you get very, very passionate. It's a very, I don't know if entertaining is the right word to use, but I really like watching you speak. And I like watching people's reactions to you speak, and what they're hearing and engaging in. What are some of these areas that if someone was to attend either our event or a state association where we're speaking, or a study club, what are some of the areas that they can learn about?
Casey Hiers:
Well, first off, I appreciate the compliment. One of the best compliments I received, it was from someone who turned out, kind of a smaller DSO corporate thing where they owned. They were the Grand Poobah of 150 dental locations. And afterwards, still within the presentation said, "May I say something?" And he said who he was. He goes, "Most of you in this room know who I am." He said, "This is so important." He said, "I'm where I am. I got a lot of breaks along the way, you don't know half the story. But these are the things that will help every practice owner." And he just went on and on and on. And I was like, holy cow, that is a nice compliment. Because in a lot of these rooms, people are looking at each other and some are competitors or they know each other and are sizing each other up. And that was just such a genuine feedback to the room. But ultimately, it was a compliment on our subject matter. What we get into-
Jarrod Bridgeman:
That would not benefit him particularly whatsoever.
Casey Hiers:
No, not really. And that's why I think it was so impactful. But we get into areas that are uncomfortable. I can go through some of them. But we go into areas that ultimately, in any room, I don't know their situations, personal or practice. Some people are in that room and dentistry has failed them. They are sad. Their overhead's high, their income's low. They're producing-
Jarrod Bridgeman:
They've been working like a dog.
Casey Hiers:
Their body hurts and they're a little jaded, a little cynical. But I also have people in there that have $2 million practices. Their fee for service, is they're making 800 to a million a year.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
And their frustrations are-
Casey Hiers:
They have different frustrations. And so in any room, and I always say this, we're going to go a mile wide and inch deep, but I'm going to give you your solution. Because how the heck could I? I don't know you. We're not that arrogant.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Right. Right?
Casey Hiers:
But I've said this before on this podcast, and I typically preface most presentations with this. There is no magic bullet. There's not one, two, or three things you're going to do that are going to fix things.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Correct.
Casey Hiers:
There's probably 50 things every year. And when you fix half of them, guess what? There's a new couple dozen. And so I try to get into-
Jarrod Bridgeman:
It's like whack-a-mole. You [inaudible 00:09:25] this one down, something else may pop up.
Casey Hiers:
I imagine a lot of people listening can resonate with that. They put out one fire and then two more pop up, and that's hard. But most specialists and dentists keep that to themselves because they want to show strength. Which, we understand. One of the big things we'll get into right off the bat is insurance. And that's fun in different geographies. And let me back up. One thing that's pretty consistent is somebody in the room will get frustrated because I'm and getting into things that they have been frustrated with. And they will then tell me that in their specific situation or geography, or whatever, that it's just unfixable. So in their minds, because of insurance and their geography, it's just not fixable. Well, human psychology, if you allow yourself to believe those lies, most of the time they are lies that you feed yourself, then it's not your fault.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
It's a snake eating its own tail.
Casey Hiers:
Yeah, it's everybody else's. Because if they acknowledge that, no, it can be better. Well, crap, then there's a lot of work that they have to do. And they have to have some humility and go-
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Say, or is that the pride of the fact that they couldn't figure out to fix it themselves?
Casey Hiers:
Oh, sure. That means you have to have the humility to go, "Oh, so it can be better. I just haven't achieved it yet."
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Right.
Casey Hiers:
But we'll get into insurance. We'll get into insurance adjustments. Again, some people in the room, that's not a thing. Others, it's a little bit or a lot of a thing. But we'll get into what they should be, reasons why insurances could get out of hand. We cover it in a pretty robust manner. We also do a case study to quantify that. But again, that's one real-life scenario.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
And you guys also... You guys. You also lay out some pretty generic, or specific I should say, red flag areas to look out for too that-
Casey Hiers:
Yeah, I think that's the whole thing. While I go through these, it's a self-test, and so there's dozens of them. We'll touch on eight problem areas, stressors, cashflow killers. And the whole point of it is, here's a self-test. On three of these you may go, "Man, I've got that." Good for you. That's excellent. Well, what about these other ones? Well, I'm unsure about these two. And then these other, I'm failing. And so-
Jarrod Bridgeman:
And we're still just touching the surface of what we do as a firm in its entirety.
Casey Hiers:
These are one and two-hour events. We do three sometimes, but normally one and two. We get into insurance and insurance adjustments, so we'll get into tax management. Holy cow, those two right there I could talk for half a day. Nobody wants to hear that.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Well, and obviously in the tax one too, most people know, especially once you own your own business or own a business, you need someone else's help with because it's just so damn confusing.
Casey Hiers:
Well, and it's twofold. One, a lot of people go, "Oh yeah, I like my tax person. They're great." But then on the same coin, they're missing a lot of opportunities to reduce tax liability. But we'll get into what reactive tax planning looks like. Some of the reasons why there's massive tax surprises, either refunds or extra owed. We'll get into what good looks like around taxes. And then overhead, again, another huge bucket. A lot of things affect overhead, but we get into overhead and knowing your numbers and what it should be. And if it's here, that's not good enough. And unfortunately, a lot of people, their overhead is so high, but they are content or have told themselves, "Well, that's just how it is. Just how it is."
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Let me ask you, in a worst-case scenario, someone who listens to you speak, in the worst case, what are you hoping they would at least walk away with?
Casey Hiers:
To not settle. And the quote we have popularized around here is, "Start treating the business side of your practice with the same expertise as the clinical." Just spoke to somebody, they said, "As a dentist and doing implants in some higher level dentistry, we're measuring in millimeters." That's pretty precise. But then on the business finance and tax side of things, it's just wild, wild west. Hope is a terrible business plan.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Well, and we know we've had Kevin Rorton, who's an MBA and tax specialist here for the company, and he's been on the podcast several times, and we've spoken with him about that in general. Just, when we bring on a new prospect and looking at consultations, just looking at people's QuickBooks and how unruly they can be at times.
Casey Hiers:
Yeah, yeah.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
No matter how hard they try to keep it up. It's hard work, don't get me wrong.
Casey Hiers:
Well, you know that, you try to keep it up and you fail all the time.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I know, man. You think you could take something for it.
Casey Hiers:
We get into practice accounts, business accounts. Touch on, sometimes there's a shell game, six different accounts, moving money around. What having too much leads to what, having that enough leads to, some best practices around that. And then income, paycheck income, income structuring. How so many practice owners simply do what? Take what's left over at the end of the month, skip paychecks, have erratic distributions or erratic bonuses. Some don't even have the right entity structure. Nobody's told them that.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Looking at getting double taxed, all those kind of things. Yeah.
Casey Hiers:
We don't get into investing too much on these. But there's a mix of pre-tax savings, and you need balance. And too many people, they'll have just a singular focus of just brokerage or just pre-tax dollars. But then when they get to the end and they're in this tax bracket, or they have this undue risk that they've put themselves in, but nobody's told them.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yep, yep.
Casey Hiers:
We certainly touch on that. One of the retirement strategies, what that looks like. And then one of-
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Or at least having one.
Casey Hiers:
Yeah, no kidding. And then the lack of a comprehensive approach. How most people that we work with or that attend our courses, they already have some of these people in place, an accountant, a financial planner, a business advisor, an investment advisor, maybe different combination of consultants. But ultimately, if you as the practice owner are still the hub of the wheel, and you have to communicate with all of those entities, what is lost there and what the structure should look like. And really, one of the challenges of challenge your team, existing team, to do better for you. And here's what that looks like and here's how you can take some of those steps.
Because a lot of people we talk to, they're non-confrontational by nature, and so it's harder for them. But eventually, you can't let the tail wag the dog. And if your patients are doing well and your staff's doing well, and the people you help and your family and all these, if you are the one that's suffering, at some point you should be capturing more for yourself and your legacy and your retirement.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
That's right. Now, Casey, if someone-
Casey Hiers:
You only fell asleep twice during that.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I know. You sounded very into it, so I tried to stay awake. If someone's listening right now and they're like, "Hell, yes. This is what I've been wanting to hear. Or I think my society needs to hear this, my club needs to hear this. Or I belong to an organization." First of all, I want you guys to go to fourquadrantsadvisory.com/speaking. There's a form on there, and you can fill that out and we'll reach out to you. But there are some things I wanted to ask you about that, Casey, in terms of are there certain minimums that we're looking to have in terms of going somewhere to speak?
Casey Hiers:
I'm glad you asked that, but real quick, we actually have a program approved for continuing education through the AGD. 364083, off the top of my head, is our PACE number. And so these are things that are not only important but for those CE junkies out there, they can get an hour or two of CE.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Thanks for bringing it up. Yeah. Because again, not only learning stuff, but you get a certificate that says you learned something.
Casey Hiers:
Yeah. Hey, I read some bios online and hundreds of hours a year of CE and what have you. And so that can be important. But crowd size varies, right? Have I been in an Irish pub on a Tuesday in the basement after... What's the holiday? After St. Patrick's Day with some unique smells, and there was probably only 14 people there, and I was told 30? Sure. Was it a great crowd and a great event because I can customize the messaging to that room? Absolutely. It was a great event. That's a tough question. I mean, 20 to 50 is typically how many are in rooms that I present in. At the bigger meetings we'll sell out and have 100.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Sure. It'll be a full-on, almost like a college course-size room.
Casey Hiers:
Yeah. It's just a different dynamic. Similar material. Bigger the room, it's going to be a little more formal, a little more sterile. If you get 25, 30 people, we're going to interact. I want to hear from the audience.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
You get very intimate. There it is.
Casey Hiers:
Cozy.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
A little cozy.
Casey Hiers:
I'd say I get cozy with them.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Again, that's fourquadrantsadvisory.com/speaking.
Casey Hiers:
Well, and again, we'll throw in the dental society or a study club. And we've had some great ones out there. And we pop for a bar tab? Sure. There's some people out there that go, "Listen, if you can come in and speak on this, this will help drive our attendance that's dwindling." Because people can get so much CE online now that they don't actually get in a room to get it. And so some of these groups, they go, "Hey, we need a draw." And then if you have 25, 30 people, we'll pop for a $500 bar tab.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I'll say, do we do sponsoring?
Casey Hiers:
Sure. Well...
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I know we do.
Casey Hiers:
Not like the local banks that just want to be in the room and smile. No, we'll throw a little money at a bar tab if that's what it takes to help, again, a smaller group.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Remember that one time you had a cabana by the pool. That sounded awful.
Casey Hiers:
Yeah. That was [inaudible 00:18:49]-
Jarrod Bridgeman:
... bill the day.
Casey Hiers:
... story for another podcast.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
It comes down to, I want, and you want, and everybody in this company just wants to get the word out on making everybody in this field better.
Casey Hiers:
Dentistry is a wonderful industry, but my gosh, so many dentists are mediocre or underperformed from a financial standpoint. And then they're not in a best place. And who wants to be in your early to mid-60s and you sold your practice, but you still have to practice a couple days a year as an associate and go back to being the worker. Be like, that's not ideal.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
And you want to talk to somebody who understands that and gets where you're coming from, gets the frustrations, and gets your personalities. Because, I handle all of our social marketing here, and I will post things about our events coming up. And I'll have some random ass yahoos, from whatever area, making some really smartass comments about dentists that I have to go and delete and hide. Because they actually don't understand that just because you own your own practice that, oh, they've got money. They shouldn't have any frustrations at all.
Casey Hiers:
Yeah, that's a whole nother topic. Dental insurance, it's frustrating for patients because there's really no good dental insurance out there, and so patients feel like they're paying too much. And then dentists are getting 60 cents on the dollar, and so-
Jarrod Bridgeman:
A lot of people don't even know that.
Casey Hiers:
No. Insurance on both sides of the ball are rough and frustrating.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Why not come to a place where you're speaking with someone who really understands the situation?
Casey Hiers:
Listen, I'm not naive. I understand. We go to some of the best venues and people just want to go check it out, like Michelin-rated chefs and things.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
James Beard, or whatever that is, that our events guy is always talking about.
Casey Hiers:
And there's great bourbon. I know a lot of people that go just to drink some bourbon. And then they look at me at the end and they're like, "Shoot, I came here for the bourbon, but can we talk?" It's like-
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Sure.
Casey Hiers:
And then we'll talk, and there's a lot of times it's, "Hey, here's some high-level tips. We can't help you. You're not ready for us." But that's okay, you still learn something. Go to the next level. Don't settle. Don't be mediocre, because you're not as a dentist or a specialist. So why settle? I want people to have action and movement, and it's not about working with us, small percentages. But it's more like, let's go.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Let's go. Let's get that out there. Let's make everybody... A rising tide raises all, what, boats? Ships?
Casey Hiers:
Yeah.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Whatever the hell that is.
Casey Hiers:
Look at you with your quotes.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Casey, thanks again for stopping by today. Don't forget, fourquadrantsadvisory.com/speaking, if you want to submit maybe something on behalf of your organization, or if you know the contact of your organization. And listen, guys and gals, don't BS me. I know you're all involved in an organization or a study club or an association. Reach out to us. Let us help you and help fill out even their schedule. If you have a hole in your schedule, it needs someone speaking.
Casey Hiers:
Hey, anybody that reaches out, we'll consider everybody. We might not come, but we'll consider it.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
But, hey, if it fits in our schedule. You know? Thanks, Casey.
Casey Hiers:
Thanks.
Announcer:
That's all the time we have today. Thank you to our guests for their insight and for sharing some really great information. And thank you to you, the listener, for tuning in. The Millionaire Dentist podcast is brought to you by Four Quadrants Advisory. To see if they might be a good fit for you and your practice, go on over to fourquadrantsadvisory.com and see why year after year they retain over 95% of their clients. Thank you again for joining us, and we'll see you next time.
