When you find an excellent external financial advisory team, you can get yourself onto a path of financial freedom. The earlier you do that, the better. Casey and Jarrod discuss how clients of Four Quadrants can retire when they want and still be able to afford the lifestyle they are accustomed to.
Announcer:
Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Millionaire Dentist Podcast, brought to you by Four Quadrants Advisory. On this podcast, we break down the world of dentistry finances and business practices to help you become the millionaire dentist you deserve to be. Please be advised, we do speak with an honest tongue, and may not be safe for work.
Casey Hiers:
Hello, and welcome. This is Casey Hiers back at the Millionaire Dentist Podcast in studio with a very dapper Jarrod Bridgeman.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Hey, how you doing? You got a little suit on too. It's nice.
Casey Hiers:
Suited up.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Suited up.
Casey Hiers:
I love it.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
So Casey, let me ask you, Memorial Day just happened. Did you have anything great happen over your holiday weekend?
Casey Hiers:
Crushed it. I'm really good at days off. I'm really good at holidays. I crushed it.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Nice.
Casey Hiers:
I mean, you name it, cigars, golf, friends, family, cookouts.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
That's everything.
Casey Hiers:
Nailed it.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Dang.
Casey Hiers:
Really good at that time off.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah, I took the family over to my dad's house and he has a heated pool, so that was nice. It's a-
Casey Hiers:
The pond's for you in the way back though, right?
Jarrod Bridgeman:
That's right, yeah, with the leeches and all that.
Casey Hiers:
The pool's for the kids.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yes.
Casey Hiers:
Yeah, yeah.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Well, and I'm the kind of guy, I don't like cold pool water. It takes me an hour to inch my way in, so a warmer pool is really up my alley.
Casey Hiers:
Ah, I figured you'd be a cannonball guy.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I still got to plug my nose. I'm not going to lie. I never really learned to swim.
Casey Hiers:
Oh, geez.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Not that well. I can doggy paddle like a master, though.
Casey Hiers:
Oh, goodness. Yeah. It's nice to have some time off, sharpen the ax.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Well, and especially for you. I mean, you've been hitting up shows and speaking and doing all kinds of stuff lately.
Casey Hiers:
Yeah, spreading the good word. And it's funny, when we prep for podcasts-
Jarrod Bridgeman:
In terms of-
Casey Hiers:
Three to six minutes and we just run, we just go, right?
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Right. Yes. Yeah.
Casey Hiers:
And so we had so many great ideas, no one theme, and we're just going to throw some stuff against the wall and see what sticks. I mean, we've got a lot of fun things to talk about.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Right. Sure do.
Casey Hiers:
But is not what we say cohesive?
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I don't even have a title yet, but I'll think of one.
Casey Hiers:
You know what it's like when you have a bunch of ingredients left and you're like, "You know what? Let's see what we do," and it tastes delicious?
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I'm too lazy to go to the grocery store.
Casey Hiers:
"I don't know what this is going to taste like."
Jarrod Bridgeman:
And I just grab what's in my fridge.
Casey Hiers:
Oh, there you go.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Toss it in a pot.
Casey Hiers:
Yes. So some of this, of course, we are a firm who has been around for almost 20 years who helps practice owners. We talk about that all the time. Some of the topics are going to probably hit that, buy we're also going to talk about some other things in dentistry as well. But one of the first ones, we were talking to our founder and CEO, Jason Smith, and he was sort of doing some reflecting and he said, "As I look out at our clients, some of them are able to retire early. Those that find us young are able to retire at 50," and I found that interesting. And we just had somebody in from, what? New York, right?
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Right, right, right, right. He's retiring early, isn't he?
Casey Hiers:
Five years early.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Okay.
Casey Hiers:
Four and a half, if we want to get real-
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I also know he just took an amazing river cruise out in a Amsterdam and up in that area?
Casey Hiers:
Well, this is one of those things, that this was at the Yankee Dental Congress meeting presented to a sold-out room. Somebody approached us and has some questions and wants to talk. That's great, right?
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Right.
Casey Hiers:
We provide CE, but ultimately people realize your expertise comes from that you have done this for a couple decades as a firm.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Right. It was an actual experience. We just didn't make it up.
Casey Hiers:
And everybody has a different situation, and he was just in a place where one partner's retiring, another partner, disabled, and so, boom, all of a sudden, he's in a different situation. Long story short, he took that leap of faith, and for his personality profile, that was hard, Jarrod. It was really hard for him to take that leap. He looks back and goes, "The hell would I have done without finding you guys?" He's retiring four and a half years early.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
He's retiring early. He now has someone else who's bought in, right?
Casey Hiers:
Correct.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I mean, who's now ... and we will help handle that kind of handoff, right?
Casey Hiers:
And millions more than he would've had, right?
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yes.
Casey Hiers:
So for him, it was retiring early because he found us later, but we work with people who, when they find us in their mid-30s, Jarrod, they can be out of dentistry by the time they're 50.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Oh, that sounds nice.
Casey Hiers:
Retired, right? Retired.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
With lots of money.
Casey Hiers:
Oh yeah, retire well.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I mean, I can retire at 50 and be homeless.
Casey Hiers:
Eight digits, right? Eight digits.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah.
Casey Hiers:
And so that's a big deal, and that's why we butter our bread sometimes on this podcast, because this is what we do all the time. We help people. We want to help more people, but we can't help everybody.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Jason, our founder, again, also had mentioned something I found very interesting, which is, he's finding today that dentists in their mid-30s seem to have more of a strive than even 10 years ago. There's been a shift in-
Casey Hiers:
More of a drive for what? Success?
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Success, and to own their own practice and really not just own it, but own it.
Casey Hiers:
Pop quiz. Why do you think that is?
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Because millennials are better than Gen X.
Casey Hiers:
I love it.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
No, I think part of it could just be a lot of people that age or just a few years younger than us have seen the struggles that maybe their parent or their grandfather, if they're in that line of business.
Casey Hiers:
I'm going to give the answer to my own pop quiz.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Thank you. Yes.
Casey Hiers:
From my conversations with practice owners, it's twofold. That age, they've seen some older folks in maybe a study club or in the community that they've respected and they did not retire or go out the way they wanted to, or they had the practice longer, so they have seen it maybe not done the right way, and that's a little ... can cause trepidation.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah, I can see that.
Casey Hiers:
The other side of it is, a lot of their friends are going into corporate dentistry to avoid the downfalls and pitfalls that ownership can have, because they're almost too scared to do it. So they say, "I'm going to take that out of the equation. I'm going to do corporate dentistry." It's not necessarily what they want to do, but it's a path, and so some of the younger owners are looking at this going ...
Jarrod Bridgeman:
"Do I want to be old and still practicing, or do I want to get stuck in a grinding-"
Casey Hiers:
The achievers go, "Screw it. I'm going to prove everybody wrong. I want to prove my friends wrong who are too scared to own a practice."
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah, I love that.
Casey Hiers:
"And I don't want to be Old Man River at the study club who can't retire in their 70s or 80s."
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Right.
Casey Hiers:
And so what we're finding are the mindset ... Because 20 years ago, 15 years ago, some of the younger people might not have been ready for a firm like ours, quite frankly. But now, they're looking up going, "We don't have time to waste. I want to get this right. I'm good at dentistry. I'm not good at all the stuff you guys do. Let's have a chat. Let's work together." But yeah, that pop quiz is that they want to prove their corporate dentistry friends wrong and they don't want to be the old person who can't retire, so they want to get it right and they don't want to wait. They don't want to do it themselves for 10 years and fall short.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
So find us in your 30s, retire by 50, or five to eight years earlier than expected. That all sounds great. Does that mean you're working yourself to the bone?
Casey Hiers:
No. In dentistry, you hear, "If you want to make more, produce more." We've said it before. That's what people hear. It's not necessarily true. Our firm is really, really good at driving results, but increased production, like 1.7% over a couple year period. What we're all about is our clients working the same or less hours, but they're more efficient. That looks different for different practices. Sometimes that's an insurance situation we got to get figured out. Sometimes that's fees, case acceptance, patients per day, production per day. There's a lot of benchmarks that drive that.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Would that kind of tie into more of a work/life balance for these owners?
Casey Hiers:
Yeah, it's incredible. The folks, again, can take the leap of faith and have the opportunity to work with a firm like ours. Work/life balance gets better when these areas are mastered.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I mean, they're not at home working on the books either, as much as they were.
Casey Hiers:
No. No, I mean, they can actually do things that they enjoy, but it was interesting. Is it okay to pivot?
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah.
Casey Hiers:
We were just at a state meeting, and one of our clients is the president of the state association, and we had the privilege of hosting the presidential suite, and just had a great time.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah, that sounded nice.
Casey Hiers:
It was fun, right? Of course, everybody likes that feel.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Sure.
Casey Hiers:
But got to talk to a lot of people we don't work with, but they're big hitters, and the AGD and the ADA, and they do all kinds of things in the dentistry. And they were older and they heard about our firm. They haven't worked with us, but even hearing from them like, "Wow, I hear really good things," or "Younger people need to at least take a look," or "What does it take to have success?" Because again, most of these folks are older and they're still working. Some don't mind it because they're not in the mouth as much and they actually enjoy it. But it was a lot of fun to go to that meeting and again, just have those conversations. But I was asking some of them, "When you go to these sorts of meetings, what do you want to get out of it?"
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Hmm. Yeah. I feel like off the top of my head, some of it really is just the CE, in-the-chair CE.
Casey Hiers:
There's certainly some opportunities to learn something. I mean, honestly, if they're at a nice resort and they get a little family time or a little time away, see some old friends-
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Get to write it off.
Casey Hiers:
Yeah, that's right. But they had said that sometimes they still go through the exhibit hall, but it can be awkward, and it's not necessarily helpful. But I told them, I go, "Well, we actually are in the exhibit hall as well," and they go, "Oh, really?"
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Because they were just kind of skipping through it? Or-
Casey Hiers:
"We didn't know that you were," and one of them said, again, "I don't work with you, but wow, that's a good way for younger dentists to potentially find you guys," because he goes, "I didn't know about you guys until later in my career." That was an interesting conversation.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah. You know what's nice about that too is, it makes me think of when you're walking through the mall, because we don't do this, but the guys with the bottles of lotion that are constantly trying to squirt stuff in your hands and try out their lotion or something.
Casey Hiers:
If you ever walk the streets of ... well, the sidewalks of Las Vegas, like the nice areas, at least-
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yes, oh, those pamphlets they give.
Casey Hiers:
Yeah, they snap a match in. You're just like, "Leave me alone." That's how the hall can feel sometimes. Ultimately, we don't necessarily do that.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
We don't run you down.
Casey Hiers:
We like to meet new people to see if we can help them.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Sure.
Casey Hiers:
We've actually got some people ... Where at this weekend?
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Oh, we've got the American Association of Pediatric Dentistry, and they are in Orlando, right?
Casey Hiers:
Yeah, yeah. The Gaylord Palms.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yes.
Casey Hiers:
Great, great hotel, great resort.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
You've been there to that hotel, right?
Casey Hiers:
Yeah. Yeah, that Florida State meeting that we participate in.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
That's right. That's right.
Casey Hiers:
But ultimately talking to our team that's down there. Again, what we do doesn't really lend to exhibiting as much. We don't have a shiny thing, and people don't want to talk about taxes.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Because you guys won't let me go.
Casey Hiers:
You're the shiny thing.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I'm the shiny thing.
Casey Hiers:
But people don't want to talk about overhead and taxes and income and retirement because it doesn't make them feel good. At those meetings, they typically want to just have fun.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Because we only address ... We really just address the negative things that make you better, and we have positives that come out of it-
Casey Hiers:
Well, we're addressing the things that cost practice owners the most. If you get them wrong, it's going to cost you a lot.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Right, right, but it's not a product that we're like, "This will do this, and how cool, this pen can write upside down."
Casey Hiers:
And it's kind of funny, but we do a little raffle, right? We'll have a nice bottle of a Clase Azul Tequila, maybe a bottle of red wine, Caymus. It catches their eye. People are really excited to potentially win a hundred bottle or $200 bottle of an adult beverage. That's great. What we do in the conversations we have are worth so much, yet from a mindset, it's just hard for people. It puts them in a mind pretzel sometimes, and they're more comfortable talking about a nice bottle of red wine, but-
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I like to win things.
Casey Hiers:
There you go. Well, don't even get me into the tchotchkes, but yeah, a nice pediatric national meeting we're participating in, and again, for us, we don't have the shiny thing, but if we meet 20 or 30 people, there might be one that we end up chatting with and helping. A lot of the people that we talk to or that align with our firm, they like nice things and they have expensive hobbies.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
You know what? I know a couple clients that have some expensive hobbies,
Casey Hiers:
We're not saying names. Our clients get things right and they have the ability to have a private jet. That is true.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Or a race car.
Casey Hiers:
Have a Ferrari, have a McLaren, have a race car, but yet-
Jarrod Bridgeman:
But they didn't go broke.
Casey Hiers:
Well, here's the difference. I've heard some really sad stories about dentists and specialists who had really expensive hobbies, and they were going to fill that need regardless if they should or not, at the expense of retirement savings, the future cashflow and the practice cashflow and home, and those are sad stories.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Is the McLaren nice to sleep in if you lose your home?
Casey Hiers:
No, no.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Oh [inaudible 00:12:44]
Casey Hiers:
I mean, what, about four or 500,000 bucks for a McLaren? Those are beautiful.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Oh, yeah.
Casey Hiers:
Not really roomy to sleep in.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Right, right.
Casey Hiers:
No, so you've got to do it right.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yep.
Casey Hiers:
Our clients get things right, and after you do that for a couple years minimum, all of a sudden you look up and you go, "Hey, I kind of want this thing," and you feel guilty about it, and then when your team goes, "You are in a position where if that's something you want to do over the next nine months, here's the path to make that happen." How much better do you feel buying something when your team's going, "That's okay"? Now, you also might hear a, "Ooh, we have got to get you fee-for-service before we're going to do that."
Jarrod Bridgeman:
But if that's your goal, we will help you work towards that goal.
Casey Hiers:
What's the path? It doesn't necessarily have to be yes or no, but what we hear is, it's so much better to do those things. We don't feel guilty about it.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Where's a good place for someone to start if they want to discuss anything about their practice, in terms of on the financial business side? Is just going to the website and fill out a form? Giving you a call? What can these folks do?
Casey Hiers:
Yeah. Actually, I received a call this week from somebody who has known about our firm, has met a client who sang our praises. That's standard. There were two or three other things that had occurred where they said, "Gosh, I just need to call." Literally just reached out. Y'all are smart. If you want to reach out, you can figure it out. Website, fill out a form, place a phone call. I think some of them are directed to my cell phone. That's fun. No, I want to hear from you.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I put that number on everything.
Casey Hiers:
No, but ultimately somebody that goes, "I don't know. I just feel like I need to talk," and after 20 minutes it was like, "Okay, this is great." You're actually vetting me because you don't take to everybody. That said, that is correct.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Well, and the great thing is, if you know need help or if you think your practice is good as is or perfect, getting a second pair of eyes can either help you be like, "Oh, yeah, I'm fantastic," or, "Here are some areas of improvement." It doesn't hurt to initiate the conversation.
Casey Hiers:
We've had three people recently that went through our process and learned that previous tax returns were not done in a dental-specific mastered way.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Right.
Casey Hiers:
And there were 30,000, 38,000 and $60,000 that, with our help amending these returns, that's what they were getting.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Wow.
Casey Hiers:
And we did not charge them more to work with us because we found it. That's just our standard of care that what they were ... And they thought they were doing pretty good. Two out of the three thought they were doing pretty good, but again, is there room for more? I don't know. Again, it's all about a conversation.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
And if you're a little too insecure or you're not a extrovert like I am or Casey is, and you kind of want to hear some more of this first before you start a conversation, again, we're going to be at all kinds of places all year long. We've got our own events that we are hosting at various top golfs. We're also implementing a tasting and CE event, like maybe some bourbon or maybe some wine. Again, those are on FourQuadrantsAdvisory.com/events. Just check out where we're going to be.
Casey Hiers:
And it's interesting, some people will come to us out of this paralysis from all the debt. We have people with $500,000 in debt when they come here. We've had people with over $2 million in debt when they come here.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I mean, debt hurts.
Casey Hiers:
It's emotional, and we've talked about this before. That's not really an issue. When you get everything else right, Jarrod, you can stroke a check and pay off the debt whenever you want. We have example after example of that.
But here's the order of concern, and if people listen to this and are finishing their jog or mowing their lawn, this is actually pretty interesting. Most people put debt number one and they want to get rid of it, and then they go down from there. It's the inverse. It should be practice, cashflow. Get the practice right. Right? Insurance, if that's a situation, get your arms around that. Personal cashflow, tax management, and the insurance, when you get those things in order, the debt is then better addressed. When those things are, eh, it's harder to pay down debt. People will reach out because of their debt.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
And there's such thing as good debt too.
Casey Hiers:
Oh, of course.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Right?
Casey Hiers:
Yeah. Yeah. Debt's emotional, but some people don't have any debt and they're like, "I'm good. I'm just doing great," and what's another thing we've heard recently? It's not uncommon for our clients' incomes to what?
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Go up by 25% in three years?
Casey Hiers:
Double. Double.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Or double, yeah.
Casey Hiers:
The average is 25%, but I mean, recently ... I mean again, we keep getting better and better ... people that have made less mistakes because they're coming to us earlier, which means the opportunity's bigger. A lot of incomes are doubling. Not happening their first month.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
No.
Casey Hiers:
But the first two and a half years, yeah, incomes are doubling.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
And that stuff goes quick. For example-
Casey Hiers:
Yet, it takes a bottle of Caymus to get somebody to have the conversation.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
That's right. Well, Casey, I wanted to thank you for this kind of a kitchen sink version of our show. Again, check us out at FourQuadrants.com. If you want to see the events we're going to be at, click the Events tab. If you want to see some of our client testimonials, there's a space for that. We've got blogs. Man. We are just full of knowledge.
Casey Hiers:
And if you've got it all figured out, keep on keeping on.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah, and just listen to us. Thanks, Casey.
Announcer:
That's all the time we have today. Thank you to our guests for their insight and for sharing some really great information, and thank you to you, the listener, for tuning in. The Millionaire Dentist Podcast is brought to you by Four Quadrants Advisory. To see if they might be a good fit for you and your practice, go on over to FourQuadrantsAdvisory.com and see why year after year they retain over 95% of their clients. Thank you again for joining us, and we'll see you next time.
