On today’s episode of the Millionaire Dentist podcast, we discuss with Dr. Joe Richardson two real-life tales of dental practice transitions, one that went great and one that had its challenges.
Announcer:
Hello everyone. Welcome to the Millionaire Dentist podcast, brought to you by Four Quadrants Advisory. On this podcast, we break down the world of dentistry finances and business practices to help you become the millionaire dentist you deserve to be. Please be advised we do speak with an honest tongue and may not be safe for work. Now here's your host, Alan Berry.
Alan Berry:
Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Millionaire Dentist podcast. On today's show we will hear and discuss two real life tales of dental practice transitions. One that went great, and one that had its challenges. To help us do that, we talk to one of Four Quadrants' long time clients, Dr. Joe Richardson. Dr. Richardson hails from the Sunshine State, where he owns and operates two very successful periodontal practices.
Alan Berry:
In our conversation, Joe takes us behind the proverbial transition curtain and talks very openly about his mistakes, some things to look out for if you're considering a transition yourself, and the one thing you have to have to make a transition a success.
Alan Berry:
Ladies and gentlemen, I'm thrilled to have this man on the show today. Hello Dr. Richardson, and thank you so much for being on the podcast.
Dr. Joe Richardson:
Hey thanks Alan. Thanks for having me.
Alan Berry:
Let's talk about your transitions. I understand that you've had two different transitions, and correct me if I'm wrong, but one of them went well and one of them not so well. Is that right?
Dr. Joe Richardson:
Right. Yeah, that's correct.
Alan Berry:
Was it the first one that didn't go well, or was it the second one that didn't go well?
Dr. Joe Richardson:
Yeah, it was the first one. I guess we'd have to a little bit define what that means, going well or not going well. Basically, obviously I ended up with the practice, and the practice ended up being pretty successful and that's certainly what I would consider going well, but looking back, it was a bumpy road, especially compared to the second transition, which was much easier.
Alan Berry:
Let's go back to the beginning of that process. What were you seeing, or what were you realizing the need for this transition?
Dr. Joe Richardson:
Yeah, so basically it was, from the very beginning, it was set up as, "One day I'm going to buy this practice." Well, I had offered this position, and I moved back to my hometown. My wife and I moved in with my parents to just save some money and get things going, to see how this was going to go. I started to work, and I'm telling you, I did everything wrong that you could possibly do wrong. There were no contracts. There were no nothing. We just, I just showed up for work. We agreed upon a number, and he literally hand wrote me a check for that number every two weeks. It never wavered in a year and a half. It was always right there in my hand, but one of the really challenging aspects about it was that he was limiting who I was allowed to see.
Dr. Joe Richardson:
I would spend entire days doing nothing, and I would sit in the practice and just sit there and do nothing. I would go out, try to generate referrals, get new patients, and the practice was doing great. The patients were coming in. They were being referred from the doctors that I went to lunch with, and I had a really, started to develop relationships with, but I wasn't treating any of their patients, and I didn't really know what was going on.
Dr. Joe Richardson:
After about, probably six or eight months, I was having lunch with one of the younger doctor referrals that I had met when I moved to town, and he said to me, he's like, "Can I ask you a question?" I said, "Absolutely, anything. What's going on?" He said, "Well," he's like, "Who decides who treats the patients that I refer to the practice?" I said, "Well you do, of course. I can treat your patients, or he can treat your patients," and he said, "Well gosh, I send over patients for you to treat, and I circle your name on the referral form, but he ends up treating all of them. I was just wondering who makes that decision, and do you not want to work on my patients?"
Dr. Joe Richardson:
Of course I'm trying to hold it together and burning up with fury inside, because I've literally, for eight months, have been averaging one patient a day, and so came back to the practice and confronted the boss about it, and didn't go well. It was an unpleasant experience. We took a couple days off from each other, and then came back and talked it through, and determined that at that time, we should start going through the motions of the buy-out, because this clearly wasn't working as an associateship.
Dr. Joe Richardson:
Even though, it wasn't like I wasn't getting paid. It was just simply that how can I be successful if I'm not allowed to treat any of the patients who are being referred to the practice?
Alan Berry:
Just to clarify, this is straight out of dental school? This is your first gig?
Dr. Joe Richardson:
Right out of residency, right.
Alan Berry:
This is with an older dentist, and you guys ... I'm assuming when you first met, hit it off, so you felt like, "Hey, let's just handshake deal this."
Dr. Joe Richardson:
Like I was saying, he was one of our courtesy faculty, so I literally knew him for three years prior to him offering me the position. He would come once a month, and watch me treat my patients in residency, so I felt like I knew him really well. As it turned out, I really didn't know really anything about how to go through that process of associateship, plus there was no formal contracts. There was no formal agreement at all, so I wasn't protected. He wasn't protected. It was awful.
Alan Berry:
What was his rationale when you came back and confronted him, that "Hey, I'm sending people this way, but I'm not getting them." Did he have any rationale, or was he like, "This is my place, tough."
Dr. Joe Richardson:
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that was exactly what it was. He said, "I'm in charge here. When it's your practice, you can do what you want. For right now, you're going to, you're getting your paycheck, so just show up to work and do what I tell you to do, and then when it's your practice, you can tell me to hit the road, or you can do whatever you want, but as of right now, we don't have a contract." He literally said, he admitted the fact that we should have a contract, but he said, "We don't have a contract and I can't let you get popular enough that you could just simply open up shop down the street." He's like, "There's no protection for me at all."
Dr. Joe Richardson:
I responded by saying, "Well who's fault's that. It's not that I didn't want to have a contract, but here I am, eight months, I've barely treated anybody." That's where that conversation went.
Alan Berry:
Did you consider at that time that you didn't have a non-compete clause with him, so couldn't you have just gone down the street, or were you still too young in your dental career that it just didn't make sense for you to be able to open up your own practice right then?
Dr. Joe Richardson:
This was 2010, and this was just a few short years after, really our, down in Florida, our housing market, the economy was still recovering, and I don't think that it was ... I don't know this for sure, but I'm under the impression that it wasn't a financial option for a brand new dentist to even get a loan to open a practice without any substantial collateral, which I didn't have.
Alan Berry:
Access to money was a lot tougher back then than it is now.
Dr. Joe Richardson:
Absolutely. There was nobody just opening fresh. Even buying his practice, I had to go through multiple banks to find a bank to give me basically 100% loan at the low, low rate of 7.2%.
Alan Berry:
I've got to imagine that your confidence level was a little bit lower too. You had to move in with your parents, and you're not exactly shaking the world like you are now, so that must have been a tougher thing to combat. A weathered dentist that did have some of those things, it was probably hard to debate the subject matter with him.
Dr. Joe Richardson:
Absolutely. You know Alan, it's like I told a lot of folks this after I got out of school, who had asked me how I was doing. I would say, "I went through this entire dental school thing, and residency, seven years worth of schooling, with the belief that when I got out there was going to be this sweet, tasty carrot that was going to be crunchy and delicious. Now that I'm out, it's like, "Where's this carrot? It's not here. What did I go through all this for? This is ridiculous."
Alan Berry:
You guys have your blow up, you take a couple days off from each other, and then you come back to the table, let's get some contracts signed. Where do you go from there? How do you find the person that comes up with those contracts and what were your next steps?
Dr. Joe Richardson:
The next step, after we agreed that it would probably be in both of our best interests to start moving on to the next stage, which was me acquiring the practice, he reached out to his accountant, and his accountant claimed that she could value the practice herself. He came back to me with a number that, after speaking with a couple of my friends, still obviously having no clue, said, "You've got to get your own quote. You've got to get somebody else to tell you that this is a valid number. How in the world, he won't even let you look at the books. He won't let you ... You don't even know what's going on in this practice. How can you trust this number?"
Dr. Joe Richardson:
I approached him about that, with that same rationale. He agreed that probably the best thing to do would be to hire a broker. In our area, there's a broker, real nice man, who is a former dentist, who was injured shortly after graduating dental school, after practicing for two or three years. Was unable to practice dentistry any longer, and so he went to law school and became an attorney. Now, he does custom practice transitions and is a broker. Everybody knows who he is because he's a dentist, so he went through and valuated the practice, and it turned out the valuation was literally $300,000.00 less than what the accountant tried to quote. The accountant just had no way of valuating. She did, based on the numbers that he was giving her, but I think there's a much more formal process, and some kind of protocol that's used to derive the practice value.
Dr. Joe Richardson:
In regard to a referral practice such as ours, the patients don't belong to the perio practice. They belong to the general dentist, who refers the patient. Unlike a general dentistry practice, where they look at how many active charts there are, and there's some value to that in regard to assessing the value of the practice. In a referral practice, there's no guarantee that referral, who may be sending a $100,000.00 a year worth of referrals to the practice is still going to refer after the practice changes hands.
Dr. Joe Richardson:
In a periodontal practice, at least, that's all I can speak for, there is a good deal of value placed on this word called, goodwill.
Alan Berry:
First of all, tell me what was the older doctor's response when he found out that he was off by $300,000.00? Did he not believe it? Did he accept it? How was that taken?
Dr. Joe Richardson:
Yeah, I remember that day specifically because the three of us, he and I, and the broker, were all in a room together. He gave him the number, and he calmly brought up that this is quite a bit lower than what he said. The broker just basically said, "Listen, I don't know who your accountant is, but if you want to put her in touch with me, I can explain the process. This is actually what I do every day, and I can actually defend this number as opposed to what she's talking about, is outrageous."
Alan Berry:
Maybe it's wise for people, if they're five years out from transitioning, maybe they should get some appraisals done on their practice to make sure the number in their head matches the reality of that number. Would that be fair?
Dr. Joe Richardson:
Yeah, absolutely.
Alan Berry:
Tell me, of course I think everybody understands basically what goodwill means, but in this context, tell me what you feel goodwill means.
Dr. Joe Richardson:
Goodwill is, in my mind, the ability of the current practice owner, the seller, to be able to say to their patients, or say to their referring dentists, that "You need to stay around in the practice. You need to continue referring to the practice." Whatever the situation may be, to ensure that the practice that the buyer is purchasing retains its overall value.
Dr. Joe Richardson:
When they typically valuate a practice, it's typically broken down into three areas, in my experience. It's been this goodwill number that we're talking about, which is pretty substantial, plus the value of the equipment, plus the value of the existing supplies. Supplies may not sound like it's that big of a number, but in a periodontal practice, there can be $100,000.00 worth of implants and bone graft in there, so that all creates value to the practice.
Dr. Joe Richardson:
In addition to that, a bank, in my understanding, needs more than just goodwill to loan this money to a young dentist who doesn't have any experience, before this acquisition, so having some value associated to equipment value and those supplies, at least gives them something to, I guess, come and get in case you default on your loan.
Dr. Joe Richardson:
In my case, all the equipment in the practice was extremely old, but it seems to me that they applied some significant value to the equipment that's not really real, but the bank needed that in order to be able to move forward with the loan.
Alan Berry:
Was it the broker that introduced you guys to the idea of, "Hey, this goodwill's important, and this is how you structure it." Was that where you got that understanding?
Dr. Joe Richardson:
Absolutely, they had a standard protocol with a specialist practice, referral based practice, where he would essentially write a letter to the referrals, that had to be approved by me, so that it basically said, "Had Joe here for the last couple of years, and my plan is to sell him the practice. Please show him the kindness. He's a good clinician," and all those stuff. Then usually there's something that's sent out to the patients as well, in regard to announcing that there will be a transition.
Alan Berry:
Who's the broker working for, because in a way I could see them working for the seller, because they're going to get their commission off that, and also how much does a broker even make? Is it a variety of numbers, or is there a set number like there is in real estate?
Dr. Joe Richardson:
I think there's a set number, and I think it's close to 10%. Forgive me if I'm wrong on that number. I really don't know exactly because this is where it gets tricky. The answer to your question in regard to who does the broker work for, the broker 100% works for the seller. They're trying to facilitate this sale for the seller. The broker explained to me, he said, "Here's what's going to happen." I was unhappy, and everything, I didn't even know what was going on in this practice, so how do I trust these numbers? "Even you, who were telling me you're a professional, but you work for him and you're about to be paid a good sum of money for this, so how do I know what's going on here?"
Dr. Joe Richardson:
He said, "Look, in every dental transaction like this, there's going to be one person who walks away with a big pile of money and there's going to be one person that walks away in a whole bunch of debt, but the potential to make a big pile of money. There's always buyer's remorse on the part of the purchaser at first, but then when you see the value of how this practice is working for you, then it gets a lot better fast." He's saying this to me.
Dr. Joe Richardson:
What's in my beset interest is for this transaction to go through. I want this to work out. He said, "You guys have some considerable problems. I really don't ... I usually try to recommend that the seller stay on for a year or two, to try to help facilitate the transition of that goodwill, the transfer of that goodwill to the patients, and the referring doctors, but in this case it seems that you've done your own thing. You've gone out and met your own referrals. You guys don't get along real great, so I'm just going to suggest that he sticks around for about six months, and then you guys go your separate ways."
Alan Berry:
Is that what happened?
Dr. Joe Richardson:
That is exactly what happened. At the six month point, things had really went pretty well after the sale was over, and I was the owner. He was on for six months. He was real nice about it, but then when the six months came around, he was somewhat surprised that I wanted him to leave. I basically explained to him, "I'm paying you far more than you ever paid me, and you're still drawing referrals, and I have lots of bills to pay, including this new practice nut that needs to be cracked." He expressed that rather clearly, that he wasn't happy with that.
Alan Berry:
The good thing is that now you have it documented, so he didn't really have a choice. It wasn't like he could come back and say, "I'm not leaving."
Dr. Joe Richardson:
That's exactly right, so everybody listening, if you ever wonder why everybody says, "Don't do this handshake. Don't do this without contracts," this is the reason why.
Alan Berry:
Have you ever heard of any transitions going with two brokers, one on each side? To me, it still seems like a lot of money not to have anybody on your side 100%. Are there brokers that play both sides, like we each have a broker, like you each have a real estate agent?
Dr. Joe Richardson:
I do think that. I think that there are, in fact people who can remain neutral. There's a protocol that needs to be followed, all the paperwork and documentation of the sale and the contracts. There are brokerage firms that have, that use essentially the same contract with every single transaction. That wheel has already been invented. It doesn't need to be re-written, but I think that a lot of new practice purchasers are willing to use the seller's broker, but they get their own attorney to review the contracts, and just make sure there are ... The broker insists upon that as well. Nobody's looking for anybody to get the short end of the stick here. I don't know how qualified the local attorney is at understanding the numbers associated with how the practice is valuated, but I know that in regard to the language, in regard to things like restricted covenants and non-competes, that's where attorneys really come, that's where they shine.
Alan Berry:
If a broker is not doing his due diligence and playing one side, I would think over time people would find that out. If you're not a trusted broker, then I'm imagining you're an out of business broker.
Dr. Joe Richardson:
That's absolutely true. This broker said to me, literally, "I'm hoping one day you become so successful that you can retire at 50 years old, and that you'll call me up and have me sell your practice for you as well. If you have a bad experience with me, that doesn't bode well for all of your friends that you tell you had a bad experience with me. My reputation needs to be good, and so I'm going to take care of you, even though obviously I'm the seller's broker."
Alan Berry:
I'm guessing that the older dentist, you had a non-compete clause with him, right, so he couldn't go open shop down the street, but what about his employees?
Dr. Joe Richardson:
I don't know that they have non-competes for staff and employees. I don't know if I've ever heard that. I just know they do for the doctors.
Alan Berry:
Sometimes you develop a bond with the hygienist more than you do the dentist, so if all of a sudden the hygienist moves down the street to the other doc's place, maybe customers will follow them and that's where I thought you need a non-compete with everybody there, but maybe I'm wrong.
Dr. Joe Richardson:
Yeah, I can't tell you for sure that I've ever heard of a non-compete for a hygienist, but I know what you're talking about is a significant issue. In fact yesterday, I went to lunch with a young dentist who just bought a practice, probably a month ago, and he was not meshing well with the existing hygienist. She's in her late 60s, and he's trying to update this practice and make it technologically sound, and everything chartless and paperless, and everything like that. The hygienist was just rebelling big time. She was not into the change. He is just freaking out because she was putting in her ... I guess she gave him two days notice and she's leaving right away, and he was really just freaking out because he's worried one, well he doesn't have a hygienist until he hires somebody, and two, all these patients are going to follow her wherever she goes. I think that's a valid concern, for sure.
Alan Berry:
You're moving in, I know that you were at the practice for a few years, but you really weren't managing the practice. The older doctor was still in charge. He's on his way out, did you guys have similar management styles, or were they different? If they were different, how do you blend yourself into that practice, because although you're the owner, you can't go in there and ruffle feathers with the employees right off the bat either, because you can't run that practice by yourself.
Dr. Joe Richardson:
This is a really good question, because the first time, I had no idea how to run a practice. What I knew of practice management came from being in the practice that I was working in, so at first, in the first transition it was really easy to just evolve into what they do. It was the only thing I understood. I had never worked in another office, and so that's the practice management style that I took on.
Dr. Joe Richardson:
Then, after I owned it, probably three to four, five years after I owned it, I evolved it into, as I talked to my other friends, as I researched and read of other things that other people were doing, other periodontists, then I started to implement other aspects into the practice, trying to improve overall patient interaction. I did that more right off. I didn't do that three to five years later, but more right off try to improve patient interaction, improve communication between the referral offices and our office.
Dr. Joe Richardson:
I felt like we could implement a little bit of digital communication, via email, things, so there wasn't so much paper going in and out all the time. This is really the age where everybody's trying to go chartless and that sort of thing. The referrals, especially the younger ones, they expected more digital communication, so these were all changes that I made in how the day to day workflow of the practice went.
Dr. Joe Richardson:
Whereas in the new transition, and we haven't talked about that yet, but in the new transition, I have a practice management style that I've evolved and developed over the last nine years, and now I'm going into a new practice that has a completely different protocol. That's pretty challenging.
Alan Berry:
Okay, so that transition, that sounds like to me shaky at first, but it ended up being ironed out. It sounds like you learned from some mistakes, moving forward. How many years later are we looking at, and why are you looking at another opportunity to do another transition? Tell me where you're at and what you're thinking.
Dr. Joe Richardson:
One day was in the practice in Eustis, and one of the supply reps came by and said, "Do you know anybody who's looking to buy a periodontal office?" Being the nosy one that I am, I asked who was selling. She told me, and I had heard of this gentleman, and he has a really good reputation, and so I reached out to him to see if there was something maybe we could do, that was mutually beneficial. What that led to was acquisition of his practice, closing of my Maitland practice, and merging the Maitland patients into his practice.
Alan Berry:
When do you go outside of the two of you to start, because you already know, "Hey, we've got to have a structure here of doing this." Where do you turn to next? You've made contact with the doctor. You want to do the deal. He seems interested too. Who are you calling next?
Dr. Joe Richardson:
Yeah, that's a great question. Well, as you alluded to in the very beginning, I am a client of Four Quadrants, so I called up Brogan, and I said, "This is my idea. This is what I'm thinking about. How should we go about this?" There was some preliminary questions and answers and that sort of thing, but then basically introduced to him, the new seller, that I work with an advisory firm, and they offer a service. They could potentially work with us instead of going through a broker, and would he consider meeting Brogan?
Dr. Joe Richardson:
We took it step by step, because I'll tell you, to rewind a little bit before we get to the next step. This really nice periodontist, who working in this practice for 35 years, his primary concern, or his primary goal in selling this practice was to make sure that his staff was taken care of, that I wasn't going to come in and just fire his staff. He really wanted to find the right person for his practice, and he wanted to find somebody who was going to uphold the level of care that he's tried to portray over the last 35 years.
Dr. Joe Richardson:
He and I spend probably three to five months getting lunch every few weeks, just getting to know each other. Then when he said, "I really think we should consider doing this deal together, I think it would be mutually beneficial," that was when I started talking to Brogan about it. Then at that point, he agreed to meet Brogan.
Alan Berry:
Wow, so in some ways that's got to be a good thing, that he was concerned about the new owner taking care of his employees. I would think that would say something to you about his management style of caring for his staff, which I think we all know is important, and the care of his patients, that he wanted to make sure that the new guy coming in was actually going to hold a certain level of quality.
Alan Berry:
At that point, I'm imaging that you were pretty positive about buying. You know you're not buying a train wreck. You're buying something that's going to be a good thing, right?
Dr. Joe Richardson:
Yeah, absolutely. Then on my end, it allowed for me to share with him my previous experience. I got well ahead of, "Okay, this is what I went through," and I was upfront and honest with him. "This is what I went through the first time. We need to avoid these kind of pitfalls. We need to avoid this confrontation and this uncomfortable awkwardness that goes on with this. Let's just be upfront and honest with one another and let's try to avoid all these things."
Dr. Joe Richardson:
I think that was really the reason that everything went so smoothly through the acquisition, and even now. I've owned that practice for six months. It's allowing for us to work through things, because we were very upfront and honest with each other the entire process.
Alan Berry:
Maybe part of the importance of a good transition is before you even bring in outside parties, is just to get to know the other owner, get to know them as a person, as a practice owner, as a dentist maybe before you go into signing documents. Does that sound like a good way to be?
Dr. Joe Richardson:
Boy, I don't know that there have ever been any truer words that have been spoken. Really, the crux of a successful practice transition is exactly what you said.
Alan Berry:
You guys have this, you guys speak a lot and talk, "Well, it could be like this, it could be like that," and then Brogan steps in and starts to put structure to the deal, I'm imaging. In the past six months, has anything came up that you were like, "Aw, we didn't think about that," but "Oh, here it is in the contract, so this makes it clear that these are the next steps forward." Has something like that came up, and what was it?
Dr. Joe Richardson:
Right, well I think first, it should be discussed that there's this initial hump that has to be overcome, where Four Quadrants is obviously my advisory firm, that's a little bit different in regard to if Four Quadrants goes and does the evaluation of the practice. Is this going to be in my best interest and not his? Whereas normally, it's the other way around, where the seller is the one hiring the broker, so we went through, initially where Brogan and Four Quadrants said, "We're going to hire an independent third-party to do the evaluation, and the seller will have individual access to those people to be able to discuss a report, discuss how the value was determined, and go from there."
Dr. Joe Richardson:
Once he agreed upon the value, then we went back to Brogan and Four Quadrants, like you said, to start putting structure to it.
Alan Berry:
Yeah, so it sounds like to me that it does go back to that, establish a good relationship with the person that's either buying or selling, and then put structure to it with an outside, trusted entity, and maybe that's the best path forward?
Dr. Joe Richardson:
Absolutely.
Alan Berry:
One last question for you, Dr. Joe, what would you say is the one thing that you have to have, to have a successful transition?
Dr. Joe Richardson:
Yeah, I think a successful ... It's just like successful dental therapy. The key is to not develop a particular treatment and have a plan to apply it to every single situation. In the sense that ... I literally practice this way, I believe 100% that every patient is an individual, and that their treatment needs to be individualized to them, based upon what they can afford, what they need, what they can tolerate medically, things like that. Same kind of thing with a successful practice transition.
Dr. Joe Richardson:
I don't know that there's an actual formula that you can apply to every situation and get a successful transition. I think that basically the most important thing in a successful transition is open-mindedness. It gets a little hairy because we're talking about a lot of money. We're talking about a dentist who's selling a practice that's their heart and soul, that they put their whole life into, so there's a lot of emotion involved, and it gets really challenging. Having an open mind and a willingness to adapt, and to discuss difficult situations is really what lead to positive relationships after the transition, which leads to patient retention.
Alan Berry:
It sounds like to me a good deal is where both sides walk away happy.
Dr. Joe Richardson:
That's ideal, for sure. That's what we go for. So far I've been very fortunate. Like I said, the first transition was a little bumpy. It didn't go the way I had planned, but I played a role in that. Now I can, now that I've been through the second transition, I can look back and say, "You know what? I handled this inappropriately," so it's easy for me to villianize the selling doctor in the first transition, but I've got to tell you, I played a role in this as well. I was not upfront about the fact that we needed to get the contract situation straightened out. There was an expectation on my part, and if we'd have discussed those expectations from the beginning, from both parties, I think that it would have gone smoother.
Dr. Joe Richardson:
Fortunately, it ended up in a positive light, and believe it or not he and I are actually good friends these days.
Alan Berry:
At the very least you learned something, so it may have been a bumpy road, but that helped lead to your next one being a successful transition.
Alan Berry:
Hey Joe, I think you so much for your time. Today's your day off, right?
Dr. Joe Richardson:
It is my day off, yes.
Alan Berry:
Thank you so much for spending some time with me on your day off, and I know that the listeners are going to get a lot from this, so I really can't thank you enough for your time. I really appreciate it.
Dr. Joe Richardson:
My pleasure. Thank you Alan.
Announcer:
That's all the time we have today. Thank you to our guests for their insight, and for sharing some really great information, and thank you to you, the listener, for tuning in. The Millionaire Dentist podcast is brought to you by Four Quadrants Advisory. To see if they might be a good fit for you and your practice, go on over to fourquadrantsadvisory.com and see why year after year they retain over 95% of their clients. Thank you again for joining us and we'll see you next time.
