Casey is joined by Mollie and Cheri, the wives of two successful dental practice-owning partners. They discuss, from their perspective, how life was before and after partnering with Four Quadrants Advisory.
Announcer:
Hello, everyone. Welcome to The Millionaire Dentist Podcast brought to you by Four Quadrants Advisory. On this podcast, we break down the world of dentistry, finances, and business practices to help you become the millionaire dentist you deserve to be. Please be advised, we do speak with an honest tongue, and may not be safe for work.
Casey Hiers:
Hello and welcome. This is Casey Hiers, back at The Millionaire Dentist Podcast. We have some special guests with us today, Cheri and Mollie. They are spouses of massively successful practice-owning dentists. Their husbands are partners, and full disclosure, they are clients of Four Quadrants Advisory. But during their annual meeting, we were talking, and we were talking about the spouse's perspective of how we help practice owners. And I invited them on, they graciously accepted. And we're just going to have an interesting conversation, Cheri and Mollie, welcome.
Mollie:
Hi, thank you, Casey.
Cheri:
Thank you.
Casey Hiers:
So, so much of what I travel the country and present CE on, and so much about what Four Quadrants is about, it's that bonus job that practice owners have, that they don't necessarily know about as they become a practice owner. And that's the business and finance side. And what I really wanted to start off by asking each of you is, what stressors, right? You marry the love of your life, they're dentists, and then you see them when they're not treating patients, right? When they're not the doctor helping people, you see the behind-the-scenes. And so Cheri, I'll start with you, as a spouse behind-the-scenes at home, what's that look like? What kind of things do you see, stressors maybe that appear?
Cheri:
It used to be that I would see the stressors in taking a vacation, or taking time off, or worrying about him, knowing that he was stressed out about things like that, patients, and money, and time off and running the office. So those would be stressors in our marriage and in our family.
Casey Hiers:
Did you notice that... and I'll give it a little background. My grandfather was a farmer and when he would go on vacation, and being away from the farm, he had this odd stress about it because he felt like he needed to be there. That's a loose comparison, but a lot of practice owners tell me, they know they need to go on vacation, but they have a little tug about being away from the practice. Did you notice that a little bit?
Cheri:
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it would be that... First of all, I mean, for instance, let's just say Hawaii. My parents had gotten a condo in Hawaii. We would go to Hawaii, and it would take him about three, four days to unwind. But yeah, absolutely, it would take a while to unwind and to stop thinking about it, or not feel like he shouldn't be there.
Casey Hiers:
Mollie, how about you? I know everybody's different, personalities are different, right? Some are more laid back, but for you as a spouse, sort of behind-the-scenes, what stressors as a practice owner did you maybe notice or pick up, or additional responsibilities that were involved with not just being a dentist, but owning a practice?
Mollie:
I guess prior to Four Quadrants, Barry and I were kind of... We were still in a new relationship, new marriage and-
Casey Hiers:
Marital bliss.
Mollie:
Marital bliss. It was wonderful. Barry, he likes to play and keep his mind off work as much as he can. But you could tell that there was always something just kind of eating at him. I'd noticed he'd be awake in the middle of the night, or just get up really, really early, and you could tell his brain was just going a mile a minute. And he likes to exercise just to relieve any stressors. And that was always good. But you could tell that there was always something just eating away at him.
Casey Hiers:
And I see a lot of financials. I see a lot of numbers. I see taxes, I see production reports, right? I see numbers. And so I do have an awareness of those things. And for our audience, again, your spouses, partners in the dental practice they own, massively successful. I mean, I would say more successful than the majority of the people I meet, talk to, or see their data. And if you would ask a dentist or practice owner if they had that level of success, they would say, all my troubles, or problems, or stressors would be over, right? That's the thinking. Wherever you're at, if you just have more, all of a sudden, things go away. Typically, you're trading one set of problems for the other.
Casey Hiers:
But again, your sentiments are from massively successful practice owners who were doing really, really well, yet, they had a little inkling that it could be a little better. Now, was there a catalyst that caused, let's call it a search for outside help? I always say typically, a practice owner has a feeling and the instinct in the pit of their stomach that, I just need to see if there's a better way, because there's some of these little stressors and they're eking into my life. Was there?
Cheri:
Yeah. Casey, I'll give my two cents, actually at where it started. And I mean, I could go on and on I guess. But yeah, I think that we were really experiencing this... I felt like I had to be... I wanted Mike to do and be not stressed, but to be able to do what he does best, which is patients and dentistry. And so it would be like, okay, who do I call to get some money or a paycheck? It was just a constant, what's coming up next? Trying to plan for things. And then feeling very disappointed in myself, like why can't I get this? Why can't I figure this out? But there was no real consistency to it.
Cheri:
And what really the catalyst, if... I might take a shortcut here. The catalyst was, we were buying a condo in Florida, and I had to put money down, we had to close. And we also owed a lot of money in taxes. All of a sudden, the day that we were going to close or some days before it, that was it for me. I just was like, I can't do this anymore. I just can't. This is really stressful. It shouldn't be like this. Like you said, some people would really love to be in this situation where we're at, but they didn't understand maybe what was going on with not really knowing, or not really feeling like it was stress-free.
Casey Hiers:
We have some younger clients who just at a younger age, they say, I'm good at dentistry. I'm not good at these other things. I've been told that what you're not good at, find those that are, delegate, and have massive success. They have that success. That's a lower number though. A lot of folks, they'll spend five, 10, 15 years just sort of trying to do it on their own, trying to figure it out. And they're doing better than most, but there's that stress involved.
Casey Hiers:
And typically, there is something that starts change. And tax management, tax surprises, right? That's a big one. That's one that can frustrate you. It typically is about around money and cash flow. So it sounds like that was consistent for you guys, as there's no consistency, no predictability, tax management's all over the place, and just wondering where it's all at.
Cheri:
Right.
Mollie:
Yeah.
Cheri:
Right. There was no rhyme or reason. We have a number of children as does Molly. And to try to figure out their lives and what was going on for them, didn't always coincide with when taxes were due, or when all of a sudden we'd be hit by something. So that was really, really tough. And we'd been at this for a while. I'm not an accountant. I mean, I think I'm good with numbers, but not that good. Nor was I at the office, that's not what I was into. So yeah, that was probably the breaking point, it was in April. I remember that because taxes were due.
Casey Hiers:
I get a few phone calls in April. You're probably not surprised. Now, I'm always curious about this. So your husband's reached out, and I had a couple of phone conversations, and then we bring the spouses in fairly early because of the personal aspect of how we help people. We get the practice, right? But then when there's there's money to be organized, we do really well at that. When I brought you guys in, into that conversation, Mollie, what were you thinking?
Mollie:
Honestly, I had no idea what we were getting into. I knew that Barry had a lot of stress about retirement. And on a personal side, he went through a divorce, and that pretty much just crushed him. And he knew that he was going to have to work till he was like 75. I mean, just to try and retire. And I'll tell you that he's enjoying his practice now. He loves doing what he does. He's able to focus on actual dentistry.
Mollie:
Sorry, getting back to your question, coming in and talking to you guys, it was nice being involved because obviously, we didn't do anything with the last accountant. And it's good to just have a hand in helping. And not that we have to do much because you guys take care of so much. We just were at the bank, where we're going to build a new cottage. And we were talking to the banker and she just said, "How wonderful it was to work with you guys because you have everything right there." They don't have to even contact us. They make maybe one phone call to you guys, and it's a smooth process. And definitely, it takes so much stress away from everybody. And we're able to enjoy ourselves.
Casey Hiers:
A lot of people are surprised at the comprehensive nature of our firm sometimes, right? They hear, yeah, I've got the practice and we need to do some things. But as they get to work with us, they see that comprehensive nature where it gets to the personal side. And there's a lot of guidance on a lot of things. And like you just mentioned, you want to maybe buy a second home, and there's a lot of red tape too that's involved in that, and we do that for you.
Casey Hiers:
At the very beginning, some spouses, they'll have a feeling of, I don't know if I want a whole bunch of other eyes on "our business," if that makes sense. Could you see how some folks could feel like that? And I guess coming out from the other side as a spouse, you touched on it, but that's not really the case, right? We're not the no people, we're the, let's do it the right way people.
Cheri:
Well, and I think that, was it Jason who said to me? "By the way, we're not going to put you on a budget." And I think that's what I was afraid of, that it was going to be like, okay, now we're going to tell you where to spend your money. And I was a little nervous about that, and it didn't go that way. I mean, I was very happy that, yeah, it wasn't anybody with their hands and their... It was helpful. It was co-doing this together, and making suggestions, and asking questions. And I just feel like I can go there and ask questions.
Casey Hiers:
I'm glad you said that. Because again, a lot of times people hear that and they think, I don't need somebody telling me what to do or how to spend money. I'm an adult, right? And so there's that fine line of that versus getting data, getting feedback, getting advice, hey, we're looking to do this. If it's a big project, let's plan this out. Let's pay for it the right way. Let's structure it the right way. That's much different than just, no. Or, what most people here who are successful when they ask their external team, sure, go ahead and do it. Because you're one of the top people that they work with, right?
Cheri:
Right, right, right. Yeah. And I guess, even down to Mad, our daughter is in dental school. And whether we pay for her dental school or we get it financed and build her credit through her. Just the different solutions to that, are much needed. I think that it's been great. And to know that we can always bring it to you all, and we're going to get some different ideas.
Casey Hiers:
And you guys have touched on this throughout, but overall, sort of having that external CFO team helping, not just with the practice and strategic direction, and ensuring that it is maximizing profitability and all of those things. But once you have captured that money as income, and retirement savings, and decision making, all the things this entails. How has that helped been for you and for your spouses in totality? You've touched on it a little bit, but just kind of like we said, that before and after, there was stress, there was lack of sleep. There was frustration, there was inconsistency. And then now having a team that you're comfortable with, building less uncertainty. Mollie, for you, how has that been helpful?
Mollie:
Well, I guess I know the first two years that we came down for our annual meeting, I looked at... I think if it was Brogan or somebody, I'm like, "I still don't know if I trust you. It's almost too good to be true, my mind is blown." But every year, we come away from that annual meeting and are just kind of blown away. Barry is just... He's like, "I feel like I'm doing less, but producing more," kind of mentality. And I think that's what kind of brings him the joy back into doing the dentistry. And I don't even know if I'm answering your question.
Casey Hiers:
No. I love where you're going with this because people always want to know the how right? Well, how? I don't understand, how? And typically, it's not about producing much more. It's not about reduction in lifestyle at all. It's just about capturing what's already there. And you've touched on some fears that people have, right? Well, this could sound too good to be true. Or, who are these people, and how do they do it? And all of those things. And I appreciate you being raw with that because that's what a lot of people think. They've done it one way for X amount of years or decades, and another way can be scary. Change is hard.
Mollie:
Right. Well, you don't think that there are other ways. I feel like that's kind of... Yeah. Obviously, my brain doesn't work that way. And so that's why you guys do this. When you show us numbers, there's proof on paper that it can be done. We love coming down.
Cheri:
Yeah.
Mollie:
And-
Cheri:
You need to make it a week though.
Mollie:
Yeah. One day is just not enough with you guys.
Casey Hiers:
Extend that trip. There's a lot of fun things to do here, it's interesting. But you've touched on something, it's not just about money, right? Yes, that's important and that's a huge driver, and those results are paramount for us. But it's that secondary taking a deep breath, stress is gone. Knowing you have a team to back you up. Cheri, that's probably been a big help for you, I would think?
Cheri:
Absolutely. And I was just thinking as you said that... I think one of the questions you guys asked at the very beginning was, is there anywhere we would... Like a legacy or somewhere we would put our money, or give to or whatever, in the future? Or, do we want to contribute to something and even like projects, stuff like that. I wasn't even thinking of those things. Prior to being with you guys, I was like, I can't just... I couldn't even get to that point. It's just life is a lot more fulfilling, not having to worry about that.
Cheri:
I mean, I have aging parents, I have children, they're all over the country, unfortunately. So you have other things you want to think about. And so this way is just... it's enjoyable to come down there for the yearly thing, because it's time to think about it, and it's time to decide where we want to go next. And so I think that's a good feeling for a relationship and for a husband and wife to be in, and to enjoy the practice. We're building a new building, and it's beautiful.
Casey Hiers:
Well, I'm glad you brought that up. That's one of those things, too, that big strategic practice advice. Adding a chair, adding a building, adding associates, all those big decisions a lot of times, unfortunately, practice owners just sort of go on instinct. And doing those big decisions the wrong way can set practice owners back, years, right? Four or five years if they do it the wrong way. And when you do it the right way, it just propels you in such a nice manner. Could you imagine doing that without some experts to sort of help guide?
Cheri:
No, we would've never gone there. And then we also hit COVID. And so I think with your guidance and deciding not to build a completely new building and put millions, the way it was done was perfect help. So yeah, you're right. I know Mike feels the same way. The guidance definitely made it possible, and not very stressful.
Casey Hiers:
Well, a lot of people want to add on, they want the big waterfall in the lobby. I'm kind of joking tongue in cheek, right? But they want the big perfect practice, they go all in. And we always say, there's more than one way to accomplish something, right?
Cheri:
Right.
Casey Hiers:
So you're going to have a beautiful building, but there's alternatives. Y'all just need, here are some options, which ones do you like, right?
Cheri:
Which ones make sense, too?
Casey Hiers:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, pulling the emotion out of it.
Cheri:
Right, absolutely. Absolutely. When we first started talking about it, COVID wasn't even an issue. And so now it's like, whoa, good thing we did it this way. Because it'll be okay. And you know what? We've not talked about the guidance through COVID.
Casey Hiers:
Well, touch on that a little bit, because that was really scary, as practice owners to be closed where production covers up a whole bunch of things for practice owners. And I know from my experience when these folks didn't have production for six weeks, all of a sudden, they realized I need to clean up the business side of my practice and make sure I am maximizing profitability here. And we've had some really good conversations. But from your perspective, as having a team, and hitting COVID, how did that help psychologically?
Cheri:
It was amazing for me. Mollie, you could talk, too. It was amazing for me because it wasn't fear-based. I mean, yeah, I was afraid of COVID and the whole bit, but it was very good to have the direction we had, seamless. It seemed like you guys were ahead of the help that was there, the PPPs or whatever it was that... All these acronyms were things that we're like, how do you know-
Casey Hiers:
It was like alphabet soup, right? It was all these letters. And we would hear from people who we don't work with, that they were getting additional bills from their team to fill out these things, and they weren't giving them proactive information. While, we were out ahead of that for our clients, and you were able to experience that. So it probably gave you some ease in a tough time.
Cheri:
Absolutely.
Mollie:
Yeah. And it changed the way Mike and Barry practiced, too, because they actually... They're still not in the office together. They work one week off, one week... Throughout last winter, it was two weeks on two weeks off. And still, production was more amazing than you would ever think during a pandemic. Well, I say we, but I don't think it could have been as successful if Four Quadrants wasn't a part of it, because it certainly took the stress away from a very, very stressful time and situation that we're all going through right now.
Casey Hiers:
I'm fans. I admire you both and your husbands so much. And there's a variety of reasons, right? I like you guys. But again, the level of success that they already had just kind of going through it, and having the self-awareness, the humbleness, and the meekness to say, you know what? Let's see if there's a better way. I just find that fascinating. We kind of joke here, the loudest cries come from the cheap seats. And I'll get calls from practice owners, and their production and collections, they're very minimal, and that's okay.
Casey Hiers:
There's different practices, and they'll grow, and there's a time for working with a firm like ours. But they sound like they have a dental empire, right? And that they're making $10 million a year because they're not humble enough to realize the weaknesses sometimes. And I respect you all so much because it would've been very easy to say we are doing darn well, right?
Mollie:
Right.
Casey Hiers:
Better than 90 percent of dentistry before us, it would've been very tempting to just let pride get in the way of achieving more. Does that make sense?
Cheri:
Absolutely.
Mollie:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Cheri:
And I know as a spouse, actually going in and watching Barry and Mike both do their dentistry, I just know they're both really good dentists. I mean, I know they do a really good job, so I respect both of them. And I admire and feel like, we're just saying, hey, none of us were really trained in this area, why not have somebody help out? That, why not let them do what they do best?
Casey Hiers:
So for our audience out there, practice owners and spouses, people that listen to this and are maybe unsure, right? And Mollie, you even mentioned that you're like, I don't know about this, it might take a little more to "win me over," which results typically do that. But what would you say to those out there who, they have an accountant, they have a financial plan, or they have a business advisor, they have a consultant, they have an investment person, and they're all sort of working individually, and they're okay. They like them. They're not sure if they're the best for them, but they just kind of keep on keeping on, but they do have that feeling in the pit of their stomach, that maybe there is a better way. It's kind of a long question, but what advice would you have for those spouses and practice owners out there that are on that other side of having a team?
Mollie:
I would say, trust your gut instinct with the, you need to go somewhere else, and just know that you're going to be well taken care of. Your stressors are going to decrease significantly. You'll be able to enjoy your life outside of your practice, including family. And just be able to do what you want to do
Casey Hiers:
Well, and it's real, right? A lot of the conversations we had early on as we were feeling each other out, and now you look at this and go, yeah, they do what they say. It's real.
Cheri:
Yeah.
Mollie:
Absolutely.
Cheri:
We just refinanced our place in Florida and in Washburn and did it within like six weeks. And we didn't do it, you guys did. I was like, wow, this is fantastic. And in the meantime, we found a really good loan guy that we really... He sent me a birthday card. But yeah, I've made some great contacts and everybody there is really pleasant to work with.
Casey Hiers:
Well, and that's always the bonus, right? I mean, bottom line is results. Can we help with income, or retirement savings, overhead decision making, take out uncertainty, reduce stress, all of those things. But then, if we all like each other and get along, that's not a bad bonus. I appreciate you guys making some time to get together and talk about this, right? It's sort of the other side of things. You've got the dentist, but the spouse, this affects so much.
Casey Hiers:
And I wanted to get your perspectives. I really appreciate you guys sharing, and it's about money. It's about stress. It's about time, it's about relationships. It's about a whole bunch of things. And you guys are just a shining example of what having great dentists, having great spouses, and then having a team to help organize it all and maximize it all, and what that looks like. And you guys did a great job summarizing it. So I thank you.
Announcer:
That's all the time we have today. Thank you to our guests for their insight and for sharing some really great information. And thank you to you, the listener for tuning in. The Millionaire Dentist Podcast is brought to you by Four Quadrants Advisory. To see if they might be a good fit for you and your practice, go on over to fourquadrantsadvisory.com, and see why year after year, they retain over 95% of their clients. Thank you again for joining us, and we'll see you next time.
