In this insightful episode, Casey and Jarrod speak about the critical process of hiring the right fit for your dental practice. They understand that finding the perfect team member can make or break the success of a practice. Join them as they share their top tips and strategies for identifying and attracting candidates who have the necessary skills and align with your practice’s values and culture.
Announcer:
Hello everyone. Welcome to the Millionaire Dentist podcast, brought to you by Four Quadrants Advisory. On this podcast, we break down the world of dentistry, finances, and business practices to help you become the millionaire dentist you deserve to be. Please be advised we do speak with an honest tongue and may not be safe for work.
Casey Hiers:
Hello and welcome. This is Casey Hiers back at the Millionaire Dentist podcast in studio with co-host Jarrod Bridgeman.
Announcer:
Casey, how are you?
Casey Hiers:
Looking good, man. I don't know if you're like Crockett or Tubbs over there with your powder blue sport coat, but you're fighting the good fight.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I am fighting. And also speaking of jackets, you got really nice one on too. Is that brand new?
Casey Hiers:
Yeah.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
New to you at least?
Casey Hiers:
Yeah.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah, it's nice.
Casey Hiers:
It's making its debut and multiple people have mentioned it, so apparently I need to keep the wardrobe fresh.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I think you need to, and I am also in that same boat because I have such head trash from being younger and not having money growing up that buying clothes for me was always a one time a year, school year thing. And as an adult with my own decisions to make, I'm getting used to more and more used to the idea of, "Oh, I can go and buy clothes when and where I want.
Casey Hiers:
Hopefully our bodies aren't going to change too much where we "outgrow" them anymore as kids. Yeah, I get that when I was a kid, but now if you are consistently adding to it's good.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I mean, I'm not getting taller. Just wider.
Casey Hiers:
Yeah.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
It's fine.
Casey Hiers:
And we're not talking about wardrobe today to our listeners.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Casey, we've got our lovely team and they've been going out and then meeting and greeting and doing our speaking events. One of the things that's been keeping you a little busier than normal is our firm has been growing quite a bit and you've been more involved doing interviews in the hiring process. How is that looking for you? What does that look like to you?
Casey Hiers:
Well, it causes me to be more empathetic because when I talk to practice owners, the number one frustration that they like to talk about is team or staff and hiring, right? And we've talked about that before.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I would say that's usually number one on the list.
Casey Hiers:
Yeah, for multiple reasons. Number one, it's real, right? There are challenges finding good hygienist and good assistants and keeping the office good. That's what we're going to talk about today. But they also lead with that because it's not as personal as some of the things we talked about.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
It's kind of a blame shift. It depersonalizes it towards something else.
Casey Hiers:
When you start talking about your income and your retirement and your planning and profitability and over it, those things are not as fun to talk about. So staff and team get talked about a lot to which we understand. That's virtually universal, and then we just kind of move forward. Let's get to the core and root of things because when those things are better, typically staff and team aren't as frustrating. But that being said, we're going to talk about hiring and dental practices that are replacing or growing what that's like. Because again, here we're growing, we're helping more practice owners, and so we have to make sure our level of service is the Ritz-Carlton. And to maintain that, there are a lot of hiring and interviewing and the right people and the wrong people things that we do. So we said, "Let's talk about this thing that dentists and specialists feel safe talking about." Which is, "Oh, my team. Oh, my staff." So let's do it.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Let's do it. So right out of the gate, let's talk about, what's number one on our list here? What's the top thing you think we should speak about?
Casey Hiers:
Well, before we get into that, I think it's really important as a practice owner or if you're running point hiring people. Separate yourselves by being straightforward with what you want and strongly stating expectations instead of just wooing them. There's a misconception out there that you just have to tell people what they want to hear and woo them or I'm not going to get them, I'm going to be understaffed. To find the right person, I think you need to start off being pretty honest.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
That's 100% accurate, because let's say you do get them in and it doesn't live up to what you've promised. That could lead to, very quickly, people quitting.
Casey Hiers:
Human nature, human psychology, people complain. And in this time people like to be victims and selfish and all the negative human psychologies can come out with a bad hire, and so just wooing them and telling them what they're going to say is not real effective. You want to sell yourself in your practice if you're hiring, but you also need to start to lay the foundation of accountability and achievement and a service-minded heart. And if you have those things, that's a good starting spot instead of me, me, me, I, I I. What's the number? How much am I going to make? How much time off am I going to get? If you have somebody that's leading with that, hopefully this is a obvious thing, but big red flag, correct, right? But not just trying to woo people, try to get to know them and be very straightforward. And if there are things you know don't like, characteristics from past people, bring that up early. It sounds like, again, a one-on-one level tip, but it's not done.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
It'd be nicer to know upfront too if something's just not going to work between the two of you.
Casey Hiers:
I did hours of research, wink, wink. I saw something where it talked about offering ownership opportunities to a dental hygienist, and I thought I was on a parody or a spoof research site because I'm like... I'm trying to refrain.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I have not heard of anybody doing that.
Casey Hiers:
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. If you were a practice owner, you went to dental school, you want to make some money, you need role players to help your practice. Half the things that I saw was all about kissing ass and wooing these people to get them in the door, "Please work for me." Well, you're already starting off as not a strong leader if that's your starting spot.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I liked how you brought up a lot of people just tend to complain in general about things no matter what.
Casey Hiers:
Yeah, I don't like the temperature in here right now. I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I like to chill out in here, keeps me fresh. And the problem with today, I think is it's so much easier to get your complaints out there to-
Casey Hiers:
Well, it's celebrated.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah. There's a platform that everybody can use, it's the internet. And so having a situation where you may have misled a potential hire and things like that, that could also get out there as well as a company-
Casey Hiers:
And it might not even be misled, it's just you focused on the wrong things. And in the old days, grumpy old man, get off my lawn, if you were maybe not great at what you were doing, you worked to get better at it. Now people just complain and share their complaints and get that victim like, "Oh, they feel sorry for me." That feels better than admitting, "Yeah, I need to prove some skills and work at my craft."
Jarrod Bridgeman:
And having someone feel sorry for you can be nice sometimes, that's how I got laid in college.
Casey Hiers:
That is a technique.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yes. Yeah.
Casey Hiers:
Lost puppy dog or woe is me.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Oh, what's wrong?
Casey Hiers:
Yeah.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
[inaudible 00:07:07].
Casey Hiers:
I don't if you're going to edit that or not, I think it's useful. All right. Here's something I kind of put together. So many dental practices focus on clinical and technical skills, and that's very important. Those are also trainable, correct? The focus has to be personality. Are they kind? Are they confident? Are they caring? Is there a warm and happy demeanor? It's hard to change personality. Technical skills, again, are trainable. And I think that's just a good reminder, it's not some breaking news thing that's new, but I think that it needs to be reminded. What am I looking for? Well, I want somebody who can multitask. I want someone who's not scared to take on more responsibility.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Well, the nice thing too about the potential of hiring somebody that with some skills that maybe you need to train them on is that you train them in your process, in your method. They don't come in with a lot of potential bad habits.
Casey Hiers:
Right, and you don't need a bunch of little professors.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah.
Casey Hiers:
"Well, I've done it this way and this is the way I'm going to do it." Well, hopefully that aligns and you need to talk about that. But really it's getting to what motivates people? What type of person they are? What their personality is? Are they trainable? So many people just want somebody who's already all the way trained, they just plug and play. Well, if you're going to be a lazy interviewer and a lazy hirer, then you're probably not going to get the person you want. Put in some work on the front end and don't have the scarcity mindset where you're like, "There's nobody out there and I can't find anybody, and I'm just going to have to pay them a ton of money and do everything they want." And again, offer ownership, I just couldn't believe that was real.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
By the way, if you're out there and you're offering all those things, I know people that could use a job if you're just going to kiss their ass and give them what they want. That [inaudible 00:08:52] helps people out. Casey, one of the things I wanted to bring up with you, and I think anybody that's ever really applied for a job can find this to be annoying as part of the process, and that is like finding references. Four Quadrants is one of the first places I've ever ever applied to that actually called my references.
Casey Hiers:
A lot of people ask for them.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah, but they don't actually follow up. The joke early on for some early out of college or out of high school people is they put their friend's numbers down and have them pretend to be a business.
Casey Hiers:
Yeah. You [inaudible 00:09:22] out with some very unethical people.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I do. But how important do you think actually getting real references and actually calling them is?
Casey Hiers:
Well, I put it in all capitals on my notes.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Oh, I can't see that from here.
Casey Hiers:
It's incredible. If somebody struggles to find three professional references, that's a big red flag and call those references and ask good questions. And listen, everybody has strengths and weaknesses. Knowing what those are is really important instead of finding them out in month 10, when most of your patients have already met this person, and then that becomes a larger problem. And so getting good references and confirming they are who they are, and most likely if they've worked for somebody in your geography, you could get a feel for that. So I get it, in a dental world, a lot of times they're just trying to go poach some hygienists and they don't want to call anybody, and they don't want them to know that they're trying to grab them. But there needs to be some sort of origin or some proof source that they are who they say they are.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
And I like the idea of getting to know their strengths and weaknesses for people who have worked with them for X amount of time and seeing what their weaknesses, because everybody's got weaknesses. Is this a manageable weakness? Is this a weakness you're comfortable with?
Casey Hiers:
Right. And listen, if somebody volunteers, personal references can be valuable as well. And because again, I get calling the dentist down the road that you're going to poach their person. There's some nuance there that we won't get into. And sidebar, we're not a recruiting firm, we're not an HR firm. This is just Jared and Casey talking about this. But you need to have some sort of reference, you can't just do the poach thing and you don't really know much about them. I would like some personal references. I would like some volunteer... Something. You've got to talk to somebody about this person.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Correct.
Casey Hiers:
And it's incredible, the honesty I have gotten from references from people who, they've just met me and they know so-and-so and some regard enough that they gave that reference. But you can get people to share some general feelings on those reference check calls.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Do you know what my we weaknesses were when they called my references?
Casey Hiers:
Works too much.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah, immaturity.
Casey Hiers:
What?
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah.
Casey Hiers:
That's weird.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
That came up somehow.
Casey Hiers:
I call it fun-loving, right?
Jarrod Bridgeman:
That's right. I'm a fun-loving guy.
Casey Hiers:
So if you reference is somebody who likes you, they're going to go, "He's very fun-loving."
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah, yeah.
Casey Hiers:
But you can read between those lines. I've had multiple of those where what they said, I'm like, "I get what you're laying down."
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah.
Casey Hiers:
No, that makes sense. Compensation's tough, right? And really with assistance and hygienists, a lot of them are chasing the next dollar, which over time is going to hurt them. But everybody wants immediate gratification, so they're going to try to just get the number. We all know geography, it varies drastically. Everybody's geography and market is unique and there's unique challenges, but your practice overhead and your practice health financially is also a factor in compensation.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
100%.
Casey Hiers:
"Well, I'm going to play good people good, and if the range for a hygienist is 29$ to $60 an hour, well, it, I'm going to pay him on the high end." How's your overhead? Factoring that in should dictate what you pay them, not just your emotion of-
Jarrod Bridgeman:
And if you're starting them at the high end, where do you go from there?
Casey Hiers:
You go to 90% overhead and you practice till you're 75%.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Now, I will say, as someone who's job hunted before, I would make sure to let people know what your pay range is. Because you don't want someone coming in and wasting your time and their time and come to find out what your pay is not-
Casey Hiers:
General expectations is good. Getting in the specific comp too early is not, I would say. But generally speaking, what's a year one and a year four expectation, and if it's out of the ballpark, you just saved yourself some time and a lot of headache. So having general expectations.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yes, exactly.
Casey Hiers:
Listen, you should know what that you're able to offer an assistant or a hygienist should be, again, for your practice health and all that stuff. And if you're not on the same page, find that out early. Lose fast. Lose fast in an interview, and that's okay, don't feel bad about it. But man, there's so many practice owners out there that they take pride in paying their... "I pay my staff very well, and they're great." Well, yeah, you're getting ripped off. You're paying an assistant damn near six figures, that probably needs to be looked at. There's some factors where it's just so out of whack. You didn't ask, but other things to look for.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I was just getting ready to thank you. Yeah.
Casey Hiers:
That's so good.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Appreciate it.
Casey Hiers:
A great smile and a great personality.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah.
Casey Hiers:
Yeah. We're not being shallow here, but how does walking into your dental practice make your patients feel?
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Correct. Because not only your front office person, but most of your staff is going to be patient facing in some capacity.
Casey Hiers:
If your patients feel joy from every step of the way, the fact that you just put a shot in their mouth, they might not remember that as much because they had a good experience and that's going to matter. Again, some of these things just sound very, "Well, duh.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Right.
Casey Hiers:
Well, they're not addressed because there's a lot of bad hires out there. Positive attitude, meticulous to detail, empathetic, right? Somebody who just doesn't like people and rolls their eyes and just trying to get through their... That's not a good fit. How do they deal with adversity? I think putting adversity into an interview is a good thing. Tough questions. "Oh, that's hard." How do they react to adversity in an interview? I don't have any zingers. I like to drill in on some of the BS that I smell. So many people have talking points and high levels things or name-dropping or longevity. And it's like, "I've been doing this for 25 years." Okay, that's great. Longevity does not mean you're worth a shit at what you do.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Correct.
Casey Hiers:
It can be a good thing, but I typically will meet them where they're at and then drill down on what they say to see is there any depth to them or is this just a talking point that they expect somebody to go, "Oh, that sounds great." And move on.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Right, that's good call.
Casey Hiers:
But I think hearing what they say and then going three levels deeper instead of just accepting the-
Jarrod Bridgeman:
The surface answer.
Casey Hiers:
... surface level answer that they're used to getting. "Oh, great." Instead, again, go deeper. That is so important because you need to know what this person is about. Are they about themselves?
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah.
Casey Hiers:
Is it just all about their personal lives, their personal happiness and their money? Those are important, but if that's what they're leading with in a first interview or two, not a great-
Jarrod Bridgeman:
I feel like a lot of these points, and it may not be specific towards it, but I think the overall general feeling of this conversation could also be applied to if you're out there and you're looking for a new external financial team or looking for a new accountant, taking more than just a surface level questions.
Casey Hiers:
Oh, you can plug this in with anything. You want to be around people who are energetic. How about physical stamina? Hygienists are going to be on their feet all day. Physical stamina and energy and empathy. Listen, interviewing is hard, resist the urge as a practice owner to just have that be the thing that you're always thinking is going to hold you back. It's a huge factor, but it's on you. Get it right. Start to show your leadership now. Don't just be a kiss to try to woo them to get you on your team because that culture fits important. How are they going to fit with the other people in the office? How's that culture fit? How's their energy? Are they easy to work with? Are they dependable?
Jarrod Bridgeman:
All this pre-work will save you so much more work down the road.
Casey Hiers:
That's it.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah.
Casey Hiers:
That's exactly right. It's so easy to just, I shouldn't say so easy, but to go woo somebody, poach somebody, get somebody, it's the wrong person. Then you have months of suffering and problems versus take a little more time on the front end.Yeah.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
Casey, we're going to be in several places throughout the summer and throughout the fall. I know we're going to be in St. Louis and Kansas City coming up pretty soon. Check us out at fourquadrantsadvisory.com, there's an events tab on there. We're also going to be in Indianapolis. We're coming up throughout Ohio, so we're going to be in Cincinnati and Cleveland. I know we're going to be at the Florida Dental Convention. There's all kinds of really awesome things that we're doing to meet and talk to and try to help practice owners out there. Are you excited to be on the road again?
Casey Hiers:
Oh, I love it.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
If you're interested in learning more about how we may be able to help you guys out there, go to our website, fill out a form, give us a call, and we'll be in touch.
Casey Hiers:
When your overhead's 55%, it's a lot more fun to hire because you have more flexibility.
Jarrod Bridgeman:
That's right. Thanks, Casey.
Announcer:
That's all the time we today. Thank you to our guests for their insight and for sharing some really great information, and thank you to you, the listener for tuning in. The Millionaire Dentist podcast is brought to you by Four Quadrants Advisory. To see if they might be a good fit for you and your practice, go on over to FourQuadrantsAdvisory.com and see why year after year they retain over 95% of their clients. Thank you again for joining us and we'll see you next time.
