How Expert Guidance Drilled Down to Early Retirement and Business Growth

Announcer:
Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Millionaire Dentist Podcast, brought to you by Four Quadrants Advisory. On this podcast, we break down the world of dentistry finances and business practices to help you become the millionaire dentist you deserve to be. Please be advised, we do speak with an honest tongue and may not be safe for work.

Casey Hiers:
Hello and welcome. This is Casey Hiers back at the Millionaire Dentist Podcast, in studio with co-host Jarrod Bridgeman.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Hey, Casey. How are you?

Casey Hiers:
I'm doing all right. It's so nice that you ask.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
I know you. You're surviving this incredible heat wave we're having outside. It's like 90-plus degrees right now.

Casey Hiers:
I love the heat. I don't understand why everybody's complaining.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
It's the humidity.

Casey Hiers:
The winter stinks.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
It makes my hair curl. I got to reset it.

Casey Hiers:
The cold hurts. The hot is just uncomfortable. I'll take uncomfortable over pain any day. I love this heat. Bring it on.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment. I like the pain.

Casey Hiers:
Get your electrolytes up. You'll feel a lot better.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yesterday, my son had his little lacrosse practice, and so we went to Grand Park there in Westfield, and it was right in the middle of this torrential rainstorm we had where the rain was going sideways. So I had my umbrella and I was able to protect a quarter of myself maybe, and I was like soaked, It was just [inaudible 00:01:11].

Casey Hiers:
It probably felt good.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Sure.

Casey Hiers:
Yeah.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah.

Casey Hiers:
Just like those misters in Vegas. When you want a little water on you.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yes. Yes. Casey, we've got some really special guests in today calling in all the way from the great state of New York. Casey, will you do me a huge favor and introduce our guests, please?

Casey Hiers:
Yeah. From time to time we'd like to have some guests on our podcast. Our voices can get a little tiresome, I think. Jarrod.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yes. Most people ignore me. I get it.

Casey Hiers:
Yeah, so agreed. Yes, I heard that. Yes. Today, we have Dr. Adam Underwood and Dr. David Salomons, who are partners in a practice in upstate New York. And they are our podcast guests, today. I'm going to just spend some time getting to know them and hear their dental journey, their ownership journey, and just who knows where it's going to go.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Longtime listeners, first-time callers.

Casey Hiers:
Yeah, there you go.

Dr. Adam Underwood:
Yeah, thanks [inaudible 00:02:06]. Yeah, thanks for having us, Casey.

Dr. David Salomons:
Our pleasure to be here.

Casey Hiers:
Well, that's exciting and you guys are the stars. Today we're just going to ask some questions and our listeners are primarily dentists and specialists. And so, again, coming from the source, I think you guys have a lot to share. I always like to start with an origin story,, brief origin story because when people ask mine, I'll go on for 20 minutes. Our favorite topics are ourselves. But David and Adam, brief origin stories on why you both chose dentistry and maybe your paths to current day. We just would love to hear a summary of that.

Dr. David Salomons:
So mine was pretty much the standard path for dentistry. When I was in undergraduate, 19, I graduated underground '88. As I was getting to the conclusion, I was sort of pre-med, I did not like the way medical industry was going, as far as insurance and reimbursement and insurance covering everything, so I looked at dentistry, and it kind of intrigued me, and I decided I wanted to go that way, and I liked what I saw. And I also decided I didn't want to do 15 more years of schooling. So out of undergrad, went right into dental school at the Ohio State University-

Dr. Adam Underwood:
Go Bucks.

Dr. David Salomons:
... and then after four years there, '92 graduated, and found this terrific practice in Binghamton, New York, and been here ever since.

Casey Hiers:
David, true or false, you have a large tattoo giving homage to the Ohio State University.

Dr. David Salomons:
True. Ask him where it is. It is on my right arm shoulder.

Casey Hiers:
Oh, okay. Well, that's fine. That's fine. I'm not the-

Dr. David Salomons:
[inaudible 00:03:54].

Dr. Adam Underwood:
I'm not the biggest tattoo guy, but you've got a kick-ass tattoo. It's pretty strong.

Dr. David Salomons:
Thank you. It's pretty sweet.

Casey Hiers:
Adam, how about you? I know you've got a unique story in terms of why dentistry and sort of your path to current day.

Dr. Adam Underwood:
It's funny, David was my dentist in high school and I think I shadowed you in high school, didn't I?

Dr. David Salomons:
Yeah, you did.

Dr. Adam Underwood:
And came out of high school, went to the military for a little bit, came back, got my undergraduate in bioengineering, and then continued on and did a PhD in that, in microbiology, but ended up studying dental bacteria. Actually, came back and I think shadowed again, ended up at dental school in Buffalo, shout out to Buffalo, great school, and ended up doing residency there, raising a family for a few years in Buffalo there while we were there. And then I ended up back in Binghamton. My family's here. It's my home and kind of has been since the early nineties and, I don't know, that's kind of how I got here.
I ended up doing dentistry over research and other things just because I found research to be a little isolating and every time we do something or collect a sample from an office, because my PhD was funded, in part, by one of the major toothpaste companies, I ended up enjoying that experience a lot more. And when we were in Albany, I was at the University of Albany Medical Center, and I asked my wife, who ... we had a couple kids at the time. I said, "Katie, do you mind if I go back to dental school?" She noticed I was frustrated and kind of, I don't know, unhappy. And she was kind enough to support me to do that. And I don't know, here we are. That's kind of how I got here.

Casey Hiers:
Shout out to the wife. There's an old saying that I've tweaked. Happy wife, happy life. I think in this world of equality, happy house, happy spouse is more effective-

Dr. David Salomons:
And it still rhymes.

Casey Hiers:
And kudos to your very sweet wife to supporting you in doing that. Now, for both of you, any regrets? Looking back, any regrets with dentistry?

Dr. David Salomons:
Zero.

Dr. Adam Underwood:
Not yet. Ask me in 20 years and, no, Katie's the best. She kind of helped me get through my PhD too. We kind of were wandering through life to get back to this, so ... all my crazy dreams. But I don't have any regrets, so far. I've loved it and working with David and our past partner, Will, has been great. And bringing you guys on board has been a great addition to our team.

Casey Hiers:
David, let's go down memory lane a little bit and specifically the practice you bought into versus the practice that you had when we met, and in current day. There's a unique story is ultimately what I'm getting at. But talk about when you bought in, and sort of what that looked like, and then how things changed for you.

Dr. David Salomons:
Sure. So when I moved here, I moved here not knowing anybody. And just, fortunately I met my wife, Linda, here, just a shout-out to her, which solidified me wanting to stay in this area. But when I came here, my thought was I want to find a practice, group practice, that does good work where I can learn, eventually become an owner and carry on legacy. And that's what happened when I joined this practice. So I bought in 1996 and, over a period of years, we had partners come, retire, new associates come in.
And then fast-forward to the 2000s, Adam was coming on as an associate, and ... was it 2019?

Dr. Adam Underwood:
'18.

Dr. David Salomons:
'18. It was before COVID, so 2018. And our older partner, Will Shakun, was slowing down, getting ready to retire, but there was a partner in between me and Will who we expected to be here longer. So it would've been me, this partner and Adam, but unfortunately he became disabled from an incident in a restaurant, which I don't want to get into. And so, all of a sudden it's me, Adam coming on as an associate, and Will retiring. So ownership became very different in 2018, 2019 for me. It became me and going on from that point and trying to figure everything out.

Casey Hiers:
And I remember, I think it was the Yankee Dental Congress, we were putting on a course and you attended. And I remember you walking up and just kind of had a lot of thoughts going through your mind, but you went from, "Hey, I'm in a small group-like practice with some support," to, "holy crap, it's all on me now." What was that like?

Dr. David Salomons:
Yeah, so it was one of those where it was the, as they say, the come to Jesus time you have to figure out. I usually go every year to the Yankee, because I did my undergrad in Boston. And I decided, all right, this Yankee, I'm going to take only business classes, because, as we all know, they teach you zero business in dental school. And so, I was taking a bunch different ones and fortunately Four Quadrants Advisory was one of the ones that I took. And there was just something in the presentation, must have been your sparkling personality or whatever, that just really intrigued me. I remember driving home with Linda, because she came with me to that conference, and the five-hour drive back to Binghamton just kind of talking about different things, and what we're going to do to move forward, and how this intrigued me. Having somebody that can do things that I can't do or teach me to do things that I don't do, and make our life better.

Casey Hiers:
Adam, how long have you technically been an owner?

Dr. Adam Underwood:
Three years now.

Dr. David Salomons:
2022. Yeah, June.

Dr. Adam Underwood:
3 years now.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Great, you just had your anniversary.

Dr. Adam Underwood:
Three years now.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Your three-year anniversary. Congrats.

Dr. Adam Underwood:
Yeah, we did.

Dr. David Salomons:
That's nice.

Dr. Adam Underwood:
We did. Thank you.

Dr. David Salomons:
And you did not get any flowers?

Dr. Adam Underwood:
No, I didn't.

Casey Hiers:
No champagne and flowers. Uh-oh. Trouble on the home-front.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Trouble in paradise.

Dr. Adam Underwood:
Yeah. I know. I know. That's it. No, but it's funny, because David kind of treated me like ... brought me alongside as a partner, helped me out with that right from the get-go. So a lot of the business decisions that he'll talk to you about or he's brought up, it's his final say. But to help me along and towards partnership, he involved me in that. It was nice.

Dr. David Salomons:
And it was one of those things where it's not that we weren't a successful practice. Every year we'd sit there at the end of the year and say, "Oh, we have profit. We can do this with it." And me and my other partners, we look at each other and say, "Don't know how we did it, but we did it." And when I came back from Boston at the time with Adam and my retiring partner Will and I kind of said, "This is what I'm looking at." And he's sort of one who likes to think about everything long-term and give it a lot of thought and a lot of processing. And he was kind of like, "Yeah, it makes sense. I always thought we could use something like that." So it was kind of more of a support of what we were thinking of doing.

Casey Hiers:
That's nice for both of you. Challenges of ownership, generally speaking, and this can be for you guys personally, this could be when you go to dental societies and study clubs or talk to your classmates, just some of the challenges of ownership, having a balance of producing great dentistry, having a life, but then also being a business owner and what all comes with that. And staff and team are always top of mind, but sort of beyond staff and team, talk to our listeners about ownership challenges, things you are aware about, things that maybe pop up out of nowhere.

Dr. David Salomons:
So I lived through it with COVID, pop out of nowhere. We got shut down for three months by New York state. And so there's a real challenge. All of a sudden you're closed, you have to lay your staff off, you still got to pay bills and then you have to reopen three months later. And so that was a huge challenge, and with what Four Quadrants helped us through with the PPP, and the different funds that are out there, and then the paperwork, and the forgiveness, I would never ever have been able to do that on my own. So that's a main one as far as when that happened. And then, just in general, just running a practice, the cash flow and the purchases of agreements ... purchases of equipment or the purchases of practices, anything that we can help with or have questions on, you guys are there for us, and I find that very helpful.

Dr. Adam Underwood:
So I'm only three years into this, so I kind of let David take that question. He's gone through more than I have, but just coming on board, getting ready for ownership, financially making sure that that makes sense, and that once I become half owner or full owner, things are still profitable, and it still makes sense from a financial standpoint. Four Quadrants, you guys, the advice from everyone over there has been paramount in making that happen and a success. And since the beginning of the year, because I am going to buy David's other 50% at the end of the year, there's things that we've been trying to push onto my plate so that there's aspects of the business that I ... basically, I understand all aspects of it by next December to the level ... or to some level. And I think that's been interesting, because things that David's done behind the scenes that I wasn't aware of or things that you've helped him with that I'm going to have to start doing now, and just the advice, going forward, on some of the things that we've talked about at our yearly meetings is eye-opening.
And so, so far, I haven't had any events like COVID, anything like that, thankfully, to work through, but I think not being by myself going forward, either financially or even advice because you guys have a network of dentists that we can pair up with is reassuring. We just recently bought some equipment for our hygiene department. They had reached out, because they knew another dentist or periodontist that they were working with had the same equipment. And once given permission, they gave us ... they allowed us to contact that office and she's been real helpful in us establishing that equipment with our hygienists here. Just the behind-the-scenes partnership has been great.

Casey Hiers:
Well, it's interesting. We've got ... David, you found us, let's call it on the back nine of your career. Adam, you're taking the leap of faith of ownership anytime. It is a little leap of faith. Obviously, you and David had a great relationship, but to be able to hit the ground running with a well-ran practice, like David said, year in, year out, okay, whoo, we did it, not sure how, let's just keep on keeping on versus having a comprehensive plan, having direction, having strategy, having proactive advice. Obviously, David, throughout your career, you've probably heard a lot of practice owners talk about cash flow and overhead and decision making and tax, tax management, all those areas on the business side that can be challenging.
But finding us, putting yourself in a position, you'd mentioned retirement, will get a little more granular with that, but Adam, I could tell you, from a national perspective, hitting the ground running with the business and financial side of things, very well run, what a blessing. And the upside of finding that early is the freedom you're going to have where instead of maybe retiring four or five years earlier, find us in your thirties, retire in your fifties. You might have the opportunity to hang it up much sooner than you might even want to. But, I guess, talk about that a little bit. David, doing it one way for a lot of your career and being successful, but then seeing what really, really good looks like and what that afforded you and put you in a position to do.

Dr. David Salomons:
Right. Well, I would correct one thing you said, I found you in the back end of my career. I didn't know that it might have been the back end of my career when I met you. We had people in place. We had accountants, we had financial advisors or profit sharing retirement fund people in place, and we would meet with them. But we meet with our retirement people and be like, "What do I need to retire?" And they answer me, "Well, what do you want to do? How much do you need?" So it was like they didn't really have the answers for me, per se, that I did ... I didn't know the answers to some of the questions to ask at that point. And when we signed on with you, you guys are like, "Okay, this is what you have. It's not nearly enough." And you developed a comprehensive strategy to build up mine and Linda's retirement funds.
So, initially, it was the age 65 to retire and you showed us a plan. It all looked great. And then Linda decided, you know what? She's a little bit older than me. She decided, "I want to step away from work at the university at 60," and got me thinking, "Maybe I would like to retire a little earlier, so we can do more things." And we just rearranged a strategy, didn't suffer anything, just changed some things we did. So, hopefully, now I'm looking to step away in a year and a half to two years, or so, at a much younger age. So when I started with you, I didn't know it was going to be the back half of my career.
But now we go in and it's like the plan is comprehensive. We know exactly what we're going to have for retirement. We know exactly what we can do monthly and there's no guesswork there. And as far as anybody else that I talked to, and Adam and everybody else, I'm jealous ,because you're absolutely right. If I had found you guys when I was 35 and not 50 or 52, I would be in a position to have retired five, six years ago, and be fine for the rest of my life. So it's one of those things that you don't look back, you just look forward and you're happy with what we have. But you guys put everybody that I know of in a great position, and what you say is what you do, and what you produce is what you said you were going to do. And Linda and I are both very thankful. I know Linda tells you that all the time when we go in.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
So David, you're not being any kind of passive-aggressive towards Adam, are you, knowing that he's going to have a better head start?

Dr. David Salomons:
No, no, no, no. And for him, when I talk to people who don't have your service, especially if you're young, I tell them now is the time to do it. There was a doctor when I was at the Yankee last year and we were talking to people at a little get together, there was a young doctor there that had signed up with you. And I just said to him, "You made the best decision you could have made and you're set whenever you want to be set."

Casey Hiers:
So Adam and David, this might sound surprising, because you guys have been singing some of our praises. But ultimately a lot of times when we meet practice owners and we have conversations with them, they're rightfully skeptical. We understand that, and our process is meant to bear out proving our expertise and credibility prior to working together. But, David, you and that leap of faith, and the questions, and it was ... how was it taking that leap of faith to work with Four Quadrants Advisory more so to make changes.

Dr. David Salomons:
So skeptical like ... okay, you've known me since we started this thing, and I'm probably as skeptical as I can be of something. Because when you're comfortable in what you do and what you have, and it's not like you're bankrupt or anything, it's hard to make that change. And again, Linda and I would have conversations and it's like, "You're going to do it. You're not going to do it. You're going to do it." I'd be like, "There's five minutes I want to do it and there's five minutes that I don't want to do it, because change is hard." But when the brass nuts came down to it, it was like, "Change is hard, but there has to be a better way," and you just, for lack of a better analogy, I think it was one of the Indiana Jones movies where you got to take that step and there's just a canyon there and he takes that step.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
I was literally going to reference that movie. It's Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.

Dr. David Salomons:
There you go. So you just had to take that leap of faith and just trust that it's the right decision. And that's what I ultimately did. And again, I haven't regretted one second of it.

Casey Hiers:
Amen. I still remember it was ... you'd call and just a lot of questions and rightfully so. Our process is meant to get people's questions answered, and let's be really sure this works, but there's still a leap of faith, and I knew that you wrestled with that. And so, just again, thinking had you not taken that leap of faith, probably at least five more years you would've had to practice.

Dr. David Salomons:
Oh, probably, at least, yes.

Casey Hiers:
And then Adam lucky you, it's like ... you know what you have. You appreciate it, right? You've got a great mentor, you've got a great practice and you've got a great external team to help you with this, but, my goodness, you bought in. And part of it is, "Hey, we've got this team to help us." And you're like, "Well, okay, I'd like to learn more about them." But I think you've now got to the place where you're like, "Yeah, these guys do what they say and make our lives easier." Is that fair?

Dr. Adam Underwood:
Yeah. I mean, like I said earlier, David has brought me along the decisions that have been made since I was here. So when he met and talked with you, I think both were skeptical and I think we even reached out to people that we thought worked with you and tried to research as best we could. And there were times where we would talk in the office. I mean, it was a short decision window, and we decided eventually we were going to do it. But even coming out for the meetings, I was initially skeptical. We were given our packet with all the yearly breakdown of everything and where we want to be in another year.
And I think we're three, four or five years running now, and I have all my old past packets, and each year so far we've hit our benchmarks, and maybe then some, that you guys set forth for me for retirement. And as far as the practice goes, we've been just as profitable as we were projected to be or maybe more. So I think that everything that Four Quadrants said, even though we were skeptical at first, was taken care of. The other thing that David just reminded me about too is I'm coming out with a ton of student debt, and that's kind of an issue for a lot of younger dentists, younger than me.
I'm in my forties. Most dentists that I went to school with are about 10 years younger than me, but we all have student debt to manage. And I think, for the first couple of meetings, that was first and foremost. I didn't care about much except that student debt. And having a really clear cut black and white plan to manage that and pay it off has taken a lot of that stress off of me going forward also. And I know that I wouldn't be as financially well off and into retirement without the help of you guys. And Four Quadrants has been a huge part of the last couple of years of us kind of getting to where we are as a practice.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
David and Adam both, I wanted to ask you, and because Adam, we just touched upon this, not having to stress as much or worry as much about your student loan debt and things like that. The stress that Four Quadrants help take away from your plate, from your burden, how has that helped or affected your home life, coming home feeling less stressed?

Dr. David Salomons:
That's a good question-

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Thank you.

Dr. David Salomons:
... because there's two sides to that, in a way, also. It's definitely made things easier at home. It's easier to say, "Hey, can we do this? Can we do that? Can we remodel? Can we take a vacation?" And I'll shoot you guys an email and say, "This is what I'm looking at doing." And you'll be very logical about, "Hey, how's the cash flow? How are the bank accounts?" And I don't think there's ever been a time where you haven't been, "Yes, go ahead. Sounds great. Enjoy yourselves." And then, the flip side of that is, when Linda says, "Well, let's go do this or that," and I go, "I don't think so." And she'll go, "Well, let's ask Four Quadrants and see what they say." But no, it does help as far as just ... it's less stress, because we're not going home doing the books. We're not going home reviewing accounts. I know a lot of doctors in the area that they work during the day and then, at night, they're doing-

Jarrod Bridgeman:
QuickBooks.

Dr. David Salomons:
Yeah, QuickBooks and running through their numbers or making their deposits. So we don't have to do any of that. We know everything is washed, taken care of, monitored, checked, and to make sure. So, listen, we come in, we do our job, we go home, we have a great life at home, and we have a great quality of life.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
You actually get to spend time in the evenings with your family, not stuck to your laptop working on QuickBooks.

Dr. Adam Underwood:
And I don't know ... I can't fully answer that, because ever since I've been an owner, you guys have been part of the practice. So I can't imagine having to deal with some of the financial checks and balances that you guys go through. Our 401k stuff or investments or whatever. We would have to have two or three people on ... we would just have to hire people to take care of some of it. But I haven't had the stress of that. When I'm at work, I'm a hundred percent, I'm here. But then when I leave, I like to disconnect from the office and try to check out mentally a little bit when I'm with my kids, they're doing sports or coaching or whatever, and Four Quadrants helps facilitate that, the financial side of that, so that I don't have to worry about some things. Or if I have a question, which I do often, we will just email. I think we probably set the record for emails to you guys stuff maybe.

Dr. David Salomons:
What was it? The first year I was with you, the first meeting, that's that year, you said, "How many emails did you send us?" I said, "I don't know." I want to say it was in the hundreds, if not more. A thousand.

Dr. Adam Underwood:
1500 or something. Back and forth. I think it was each response.

Dr. David Salomons:
As I was learning how everything worked out.

Dr. Adam Underwood:
But, yeah, it's been a good partnership for me. And like I said, coming on, you guys have always kind of been with the office since I've been an owner, so it's tough to say for me, to evaluate, without.

Casey Hiers:
Well, you guys just hit on a couple of things. Number one, the communication. We structure our partnerships to encourage unlimited communication. That's where the juice happens. That's where we are able to do so much more for people when there's good communication. But a lot of folks, if they reach out to their accounts, and they'll get nickel and dimed or get some extra fee, like for the PPP that you mentioned earlier. But, Adam, you talked about that debt and that can paralyze a lot of young dentists, because they get so much of it. But we're able to help people with a ... not only a debt strategy, but also a retirement strategy. Finding that balance. There's real freedom there. David, you're right. We empower spouses. That could be slippery. But ultimately, our clients and their spouses, they enjoy that. It's a fully team effort.
And it really helps the relationships that our clients have with each other, because it's all on the table and they don't have to worry about it or have those conversations. I want to get into one more thing and then advice for practice owners listening. But so many, we'll call it firms, companies out there, it's like they want to be best friends and then work together and see what happens. And here, our whole thing is let's figure out if we can help somebody achieve great results, then the friendships will come. We can be friends later. Let's get results instead of have all these initial surface level friendships and then not really be able to get the actual life-changing results. And ultimately, that's been the case here. We've golfed together on different occasions. David, I think you and I threw some dice and maybe won some money at a casino. We both enjoy bourbons. But talk about the relationship part really stemming from great service and results.

Dr. David Salomons:
Well, I mean, relationships are everything. Whether it's us, as doctors, and our patients or with your advisors, because if you don't have a relationship with your advisor and it's just a very dry, black and white, yeah, and they can do the numbers, but they don't know the meat of the people, and the intricacies, and the give and take between the husband, the wife and everything. And so, that goes a long way towards getting the best results possible, in my mind. And you can't talk to your advisors as friends and companions and equals, then that's a problem. Then you're not getting the best ... in my mind, you don't get the best results out of that.

Casey Hiers:
Yep, yep. No doubt. Guys, how about advice for practice owners out there? Adam, you're front end. David having a glorious victory lap, we'll call it. But take it wherever you want.

Dr. Adam Underwood:
He's not that old.

Casey Hiers:
Hey, hey, whatever moisturizer you're using, I need some, because you do look great.

Dr. David Salomons:
He says it all the time.

Dr. Adam Underwood:
It's called Crown Royal.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
He's pickled.

Casey Hiers:
But yeah, take that wherever you want. Just advice for younger dentists out there, middle-aged dentists, older dentists.

Dr. David Salomons:
So the advice I always give any dentists when I talk about this is do the things you know how to do very well, and find people that do what you don't do well, that do it better, and let them do it for you.

Dr. Adam Underwood:
I was going to say for younger dentists that have the opportunity to work with you or with a practice that uses Four Quadrants' services ... I don't know. I don't like anyone being in my personal business or my money or any of this stuff. And that was my hesitation, initially. And it is a little bit of a leap of faith, like you said. But like David said, half the things that we cook up I wouldn't have been able to do on my own. And it makes life easier. Having someone come alongside you, and isn't going to charge you per call or per email, and being fiduciary in some ... you want someone who's looking out for your own interests in things. And, look, the whole way along the way, everything has been exactly that. So you feel more at peace knowing that someone else is helping you look after really what you're doing this for. You work to have fun and retire, at some point, and realize that you're okay. And maybe, if you do well, you have something to give to your kids someday.

Casey Hiers:
Well said. Absolutely, well said. And again, the practice was a strong practice, but getting to that next plateau, it can be challenging, right? To use the golf analogy, if you're a 20 handicap, getting down to a 14 is a lot easier than going from a 14 to an eight, an eight to a four. And the closer to excellence you get, the harder that is. But to go from a good practice to now an absolutely great practice that's achieving these results. And again, we like helping good people. And you guys have been great. You're coachable. You want us to prove it, right? The proof's in the pudding, got to have results, and that's how this ... the only way this works here.

Dr. Adam Underwood:
Agreed.

Casey Hiers:
But really appreciate you guys joining us today. Any parting shots before we wrap?

Dr. Adam Underwood:
I don't know if you call what I do with you guys, golf. I appreciate that.

Dr. David Salomons:
I like to have fun. No, just sending back to your whole team, from the back staff that nobody sees, to the accountants, to the people that we see when we come in, to all the way to the top, to Jason. We appreciate everything that you do and look forward to every time we get together.

Dr. Adam Underwood:
Yeah, agreed. We always have fun coming out and we get to meet your team. And I love our interactions with Brogan and Stacey and Cal and everybody. I mean, the whole team that we get to meet with every year out there is accommodating. And we always get answers to our questions we have, and et cetera. And I don't know, we appreciate everything you guys do for us.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yes. Thank you so much guys. Casey, just a reminder for all our listeners out there, we do have some events coming up. We're going to be in Leawood, Kansas, which is right outside Kansas City, and that's at the end of July, in just a couple of weeks away. We're also going to be in Wichita, Kansas. We're looking Grand Rapids. We're going to be in Virginia Beach and I don't remember the other place in Virginia. We're going to be all over the place. Go to fourquadrantsadvisory.com/events. Check us out. Register if you want to try and see what you can do with our advice, like Dr. Salomons and other would have. And so, thank you so much for listening. Give us a good review. Listen to us more. Share us with your friends. And yeah, that's all I got, Casey.

Announcer:
That's all the time we have today. Thank you to our guests for their insight and for sharing some really great information, and thank you to you, the listener for tuning in. The Millionaire Dentists Podcast is brought to you by Four Quadrants Advisory. To see if they might be a good fit for you and your practice, go on over to fourquadrantsadvisory.com and see why, year after year, they retain over 95% of their clients. Thank you again for joining us, and we'll see you next time.