From Skeptic to Success: The Emotional Journey of a Coachable Dentist

Announcer:
Hello, everyone. Welcome to The Millionaire Dentist Podcast, brought to you by Four Quadrants Advisory. On this podcast, we break down the world of dentistry finances and business practices to help you become the millionaire dentist you deserve to be. Please be advised, we do speak with an honest tongue and may not be safe for work.

Casey Hiers:
Hello and welcome, this is Casey Hiers back at The Millionaire Dentist Podcast in studio with co-host, Jarrod Bridgeman.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Casey, how are you today? You doing all right? You living it up?

Casey Hiers:
Doing all right.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah?

Casey Hiers:
Yeah.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah. How are your allergies this week?

Casey Hiers:
I had them under control. There's some beautiful trees around my home, and I attacked those leaves yesterday, and it looks great, except this morning.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Little stuffy, are you?

Casey Hiers:
Good Lord.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Man, autumn in Indiana is always I'm ready for it to happen, ready for it to happen, all of a sudden you wake up one day and have your tree, the leaves are on the ground all of a sudden. It's just instantaneous, it feels like.

Casey Hiers:
Yeah, sinuses are rough. Sorry if I sound a little stuffy.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
That's all right. It reminds me of Doc McStuffins. They always had stuffies. I remember that show.

Casey Hiers:
Barely.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Casey, you and your team recently came back from our events we had in Wisconsin. We were out in Madison, we were in Milwaukee, and we got to speak to and see a lot of really great dentists and practice owners out there. I wanted to talk today about emotions, feelings, good, bad, and the in between.

And when you're speaking at these events and you're seeing the emotions on their faces or directly after the event, maybe they come up and talk to you. What are some of the emotions that you're seeing from learning what we do and how we help people?

Casey Hiers:
Yeah. It's funny, a picture says a thousand words, and I have these images in my head of different audience members, and you almost know when one of the points of our subject matter hits them, because at first I'm like, "Oh, did the filet hit them wrong? Are they fighting constipation?" I mean, the look on their faces sometimes, but what happens is they are feeling something they haven't felt before, which is in a public forum, something is being talked about that they have struggled with for years or decades or a career. So, yeah, I mean, there are these images burned in from each event where I see somebody and I'm like, "Man, this just hit them square."

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Right in the jaw, huh?

Casey Hiers:
Yeah, absolutely.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Right in the old bread basket. And then let's say they want to schedule a call and they want to talk to you down the road, maybe so we can learn more about each other. What emotions do you see coming out of that, once you've started that part of the process?

Casey Hiers:
Well, I liked your first question. Let's back up. So these events, how are people feeling, right? So they're coming to a continuing education event. Where was it at? Rare Steak House in Milwaukee. Really, really nice spot from the food to the décor, to the service. And so people walk in, and they're feeling they're not exactly sure what they're coming for. They know that it's the business side of dentistry. We might talk on some corporate dentistry, cash flow, DSOs, all those things, but they're walking in, and so they're initially feeling pretty good. Then they'll see someone they know, like, "Oh, I haven't seen you in forever." And nice community of dentists sometimes, and so there's those feelings, and then they see the food and they get really excited. We put on a pretty good little spread.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
We got those bourbons that come out with the tasting, and that's-

Casey Hiers:
Yeah. After the tomahawks are carved or the filets are consumed, and all of that. We do a bourbon tasting. And full disclosure, I've said it before, we want to have fun, and we want to do something unique and different to have some fun, because what we talk about is so heavy.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yes.

Casey Hiers:
What our firm masters is heavy, but what we're going to talk about for those 60 to 75 minutes, let's have some fun. And so I want people to feel good when they walk in. I want people to feel good when they're there. And I warn them, this is going to be a good workout. It's going to hurt, but you're going to be better because of it.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Some people might even sweat.

Casey Hiers:
Those are the meat sweats from the tomahawks.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
So they kind of come out of that. Some might be stunned from the things you've said. Some might be angry with you because they don't agree with some of the things you've said. Well, we've tried all that. We've done this and we've done that. Are there any that come and talk to you and are maybe almost vulnerable, hat in hand, kind of like, "Oh, boy, you really tore me down on this one?"

Casey Hiers:
Well, you just said there's a range of emotions, so I'll have people that are combative, and we like to make it pretty interactive, and so questions and different things.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Feels the jump sometimes.

Casey Hiers:
I can quickly realize the person that's going to be combative because they've struggled with it, they haven't solved whatever that is, and they're frustrated, because if they can't figure it out, then it must be unsolvable, and it's an easier conclusion in their mind that that's the result.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah, they can't be.

Casey Hiers:
And if I throw out there, no, it can be done, then it pisses them off. There is that faction of an audience sometimes, and that's okay. I mean, I know what I'm walking into. I'm covering something that is near and dear to their hearts. It's costing them money, and it's a frustration because they're really good at so many things, right? Dentists are high achiever, but what we talk about are the things that they're weakest in. That's going to bring out a lot of different things.
But recently, gosh, I can't even remember. We were somewhere great. It was somebody maybe on the kind of the back nine of their career, and they had said, "I've been looking for something like this or somebody to talk about this for my whole career." So he had more of an attitude of being grateful. His emotion was like, "I'm looking forward to learning more. You guys do this, right?" Correct. We can't help everybody. That being said, he was very excited to speak because he knows it's rare to be able to figure this out.

He actually talked. I might have mentioned this before, he talked to one of his executive buddies, and he goes, "I need something like this for my practice." And he basically said, "Yeah, that'll cost you like a million dollars, because we basically pay a million dollars for this large firm to get this kind of analytics."

Jarrod Bridgeman:
So we've kind of talked about the competitiveness. What if someone who you might've met was competitive or combative or a little bit angry, defensive early on? Maybe a year, two years, three years down the road, they come back to you. What kind of emotions do you sense and get from them when they're like, "Shoot, I should have talked to you when I had the chance?"

Casey Hiers:
Yeah, timing is everything. And a lot of times, we're presenting to people who the timing isn't right for them, but down the road, we have planted a seed and they've remembered it. And as they've had more meetings with the CPA or their personal financial planner or their office reimbursement person, and just seeing these numbers, like I told them they would, if you don't address them, they're not going to get better, they're going to get worse.
Eventually, they go, "You know what? It's time to talk." That can happen where down the road a seed has been planted, but I'd say probably the most common it's somebody who's a little cynical, and I'm cynical in my old age. It's somebody who's like, "This sounds great. This is interesting, but I got some questions." I'm like, "No, shit. That's why we schedule a phone call to learn, because we might not be able to help you, or we may be able to help you. You may not want the help. We may not want to give the help if you're a jerk." So that's the whole idea, but be cynical, but be curious.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Well, yeah. I mean, if a company offers to do a lot of things and don't want to answer any of your questions, that sounds like it could be a farce.

Casey Hiers:
Yeah. That's probably the most common emotion that you get. But then let's fast-forward to we have one-on-one conversations. We have a lot of those people are curious. We go a mile wide and an inch deep. And as we get into people's specific situations, emotions can change. There's going to be some things where they're like, "Ah, wow, okay." That aha moment where now they conceptualize these things, but then it becomes a little more real. They get excited at the prospect of lowering overhead or insurance adjustments or increasing income, 25% to 80%, whatever.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
I also feel like they may gain some emotions of respect for the company and for the team because if we're scheduling a call, we're on the call. We hold them accountable. We need X information from you to even handle.

Casey Hiers:
It's not outsourced to Utah or India; it's actually us.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Really. Yeah. And I think they appreciate the fact that we are all in one, everything is in-house, everything is under one roof, and they're not used to that, having that or feeling that, because they've been piece-mailing things together for so long. "Here's the CPA, here's my planner, here's my buddy Rick, who is the in-between guy."

Casey Hiers:
It does.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
So do you find that as the talks go on, as we've spoken on multiple podcasts before, this isn't a, "Give us a call, we'll sign you up that day, and now you're a client?" There's a process to it. Do the emotions you find change up and down, up and down, even sometimes throughout the different process of multiple calls?

Casey Hiers:
I'm just going to cut through that. Here's what winners need. Here's what champions need. Here's what practice owners need if they want to multi-millionaires: they're going to have to have a little courage. You're going to have to have some courage with this. It's going to be new. You're going to have to learn it. Once you get conceptually abreast of what we do, and we understand what their practice is and what their vision is, but then people do have to get vulnerable. That's another emotion people don't like to be, but obviously, we're talking about some pretty personal information. And so you got to be courageous enough to do it. And if you're tired of your head being in the sand, you're probably going to find the courage. The sooner you do it, the better you're going to be. You're going to have to be a little vulnerable, but we're not talking about mistakes made in the past; we're looking ahead.

What can be done with your remaining years? And are you comfortable leaving a couple hundred thousand dollars on the table every single year? And if you are, then that's wonderful.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Great for you. Yeah.

Casey Hiers:
We have many other practice owners that want to talk to us that are not okay with that. But once you're vulnerable and all that, but then it's, are you coachable? We talk about coachability a lot. And I want somebody that's like, "I am not okay with just being okay. I'm an achiever. I've never been less than that in my life, so why am I settling?"

So what we're talking about is feelings. There's a lot of them from signing up to come see us, to hearing us talk, to enjoying the accoutrements at the venue, but then to engaging one-on-one and seeing, What is your vision? Is there a path? A lot of emotions happen. For us, it's very simple. Are you coachable? Are you an achiever? Can you get real, and can you get out of your own way? The changes we make are legit, but some people are, "Well, I want to go buy this big piece of equipment, and I want to try my ideas first." Okay, cool. You've been doing that for 20 years, and that's the hard part. Yeah, that's the hard part.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
And the tough part sometimes, too, is because a lot of these people have already had quite a bit of success, and now they've plateaued. But so far, relatively, their ideas have worked. Maybe not to the full extent or the amount of money they should have been getting, but they have become successful in one way or another.

Casey Hiers:
Can we pivot to one of my favorite topics?

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah. Is it PC?

Casey Hiers:
It's me. Me and my feelings.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Oh, okay.

Casey Hiers:
I mean, come on, man. What about my feelings?

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Casey, what's your emotional roller coaster as you're going through this process?

Casey Hiers:
Ironically, and this is no disrespect with my children, I want them to succeed and I want them to do well. And you can almost see a couple steps ahead with your kids, whatever that is. If it's school, if it's sports, if it's a friend, you can almost see if it's going to go well or go poorly, and you want to help them. But sometimes, they have to experience it for themselves, and they have to connect their own dots, and you can only give them so much guidance eventually. And then they're going to have to either deal with the consequences or enjoy listening.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
So you can bring the horse to the water.

Casey Hiers:
Yeah, that's exactly right. And so with so many practice owners, and I've got the benefit of doing this for a while, seeing a lot of numbers, talking to a lot of people.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah, you're up there now, aren't you?

Casey Hiers:
I can almost predict this isn't going to work, and I know why, and it's not going to come out. In two more phone meetings, it's going to come out, and it stinks, because in that case, I want to be wrong. That's hard when we can't once it more than they do, and a lot of times we already know why it's not going to work because it's been a pattern in their life or their personality, and we all have personality and character flaws, me included.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
I'll put it on a list later.

Casey Hiers:
But my feelings are that, right? I want to do a good job of understanding their vision, what they want, the nuances of that, but then ...

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Do you ever get mad for somebody? Not mad at them or because of them, but almost, I wouldn't say mad or angry, but I don't know that feeling of, "Boy, I really wish I could help you, I know you could do better?"

Casey Hiers:
Yeah. No, yeah. No, I think it's as simple as that. No, I think that is the case. And I also know we have a limited amount of slots. We have a limited amount of people that we can help, and sometimes people's patterns are, "I'm going to put it off, I'm going to drag it off this week, that week, I'll get around it."

Their actions are going to just drive them out the process, and then they're going to go, "Wait, what?" And I try to tell them like there's going to be a point when this gets more serious and we learn more. There are target dates and deadlines, and we're not a volume shop. And so those feelings are hard when, like you said, you can see it, but they have to see it. They have to feel it. They have to be ready for it.

But ultimately, the best feeling is the elation of year after year, our clients come in and we see it with the notes they send us and the pictures they send us, and their lives are enriched, and they tell us and they hug us, and they're tears of joy. That's a great feeling. And then I can go back and go, "You remember when you were in that course and you asked that question and you were glaring at me." And they're like, "Yeah, I kind of do. I didn't think it was possible." I thought I was the only one that wasn't going to be successful. I thought I was that outlier in a negative way.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
In fact, I think I have a video testimonial client story on our website where we have a doc saying the exact same thing, who has become a really fantastic client of ours.

Casey Hiers:
Yeah. I mean, a lot of times some of the people that have a harder time squaring their emotions throughout this process, if they can get out of their own way, they end up having the best results, which to sum it up is what, having the option to retire years earlier with literal millions of dollars more, but what gets in the way, it's emotions, it's patterns, it's trends in somebody's life, or they've been burnt for so many decades by consulting, air quotes, that they're just jaded.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
So we've mentioned some of the emotions of you want to be vulnerable, you want to be hat in hand, you want to have some courage.

What's another really great key characteristic that someone needs to have in order to work with a firm like ours and really see the results happen?

Casey Hiers:
It sounds like a leading question, because I don't actually know the answer you're going for, but they need to love dentistry and be able to produce dentistry. Those are common denominators that we can't help them with.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Well, Casey, my answer is going to be self-awareness. Just being aware of where you are, your attitude, how your emotions can affect your decisions, but I mean, your answer is way better.

Casey Hiers:
I'll end on a win.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
It'll be a first for you. Speaking of, how's your fantasy football team doing?

Casey Hiers:
Oh, yeah, I'm doing that, aren't I?

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah.

Casey Hiers:
Yeah. I think I got my first loss this past week, and I would rather Joel here at the office just who would've kicked my ass, but he only won by seven, and I had a guy on the bench that would've ... So those are the worst losses when you could have rearranged your roster.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
I'm undefeated this year.

Casey Hiers:
That's why you brought it up.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Yeah.

Casey Hiers:
You self-serving winner you.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
I'm not playing, but that's why I stay undefeated; I don't compete.

Casey Hiers:
That says a lot about you right there.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Casey, you and your team are going to be heading out to Houston and San Antonio very soon. Houston's already sold out, and I've got a wait list of like 12 dentists waiting for spots to open up just in case. San Antonio, we've got a little bit of wiggle room left for you folks out there.

We're also going to be in Tysons, Virginia. That one's already sold out as well. I've got a wait list building on that one, so feel free to visit our site and get on the wait list. After that, we're going to be in Athens, Georgia, and Savannah, Georgia. Those have just launched recently, so we've got seats available for those, as we haven't really started selling those yet, but get on there as soon as possible because they're going to sell out, I promise you that.

After that, we're going to be in Boca Raton and Naples, Florida. So, guys and gals, get on the site, visit us. Either register now or send us a question if you want to ask about it. Just get in contact with us somehow.

Casey, when they call and they talk to you, do you tell them how great it's going to be? Are you like, "Listen, I've been to these places. I've been to these steak houses. I've had this food. Not only is that amazing, but I'm fantastic myself."

Casey Hiers:
No, it's a good night. I mean, people have fun. Even the ones that are annoyed because they haven't maybe flourished at this, and they're going to retire in three years, they still have a very nice time with their peers, and yeah.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
Anyways, folks, visit our website, fourquadrantsadvisory.com. Review and rate our podcast here. You can do on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you see us. Casey, thank you so much for stopping by, and I believe next week, we might have our good friend, Kevin Rhoton coming in to speak with us, so it will be fun.

Casey Hiers:
I love it.

Jarrod Bridgeman:
All right. Thank you.

Announcer:
That's all the time we have today. Thank you to our guests for their insight and for sharing some really great information. And thank you to you, the listener for tuning in. The Millionaire Dentist Podcast is brought to you by Four Quadrants Advisory. To see if they might be a good fit for you and your practice, go on over to fourquadrantsadvisory.com and see why, year after year, they retain over 95% of their clients. Thank you again for joining us, and we'll see you next time.